PopupGizmos has a question for Relfectix users

Discussion in 'Heating / Cooling Systems' started by popupgizmo, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. cyndikate

    cyndikate Believe it or not, we all fit!

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    Dear Bob,
    I just saw this thread for the first time. Love my PUG's and would be interested in this product, especially for that price. I had a couple of things to add regarding fit. How about sending a set of tissue patterns (similar to sewing patterns) along with your measuring instructions? Have the purchasers cut the patterns to fit their particular windows, send them back to you and THEN make the thingies (you need a name for these, Bob. :)).
    Another idea would be to make the inserts cut to fit (like "odor eaters" for your shoes) but I am thinking that would not work because it'd leave a raw edge.
    Best of luck, and I hope you get this product figured out. It looks like a lot of folks would like to buy it. [A]
    Take care,
    Cyndikate
     
  2. amberlinnreanae

    amberlinnreanae This is suppose to be relaxing . . . right?????

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    Hello,

    We are new to the pop up world, but love our n2u pup. We went last summer without the gizmos, but plan on purchasing for the upcoming season. For 2 reasons, one being the darkening factor. We have two little boys (5 &2) and when the sun comes up they are up! Makes for a long day at camp. The second reason being my husband is a deer hunter and it's cold here in MO, hoping to keep some of that heat in the camper and air in the summer.

    We have thought about the reflective stuff, mainly again for the darkening purposes. (Most of the campsites we visit have LOTS of shade) But, I really don't want to feel like I am sleeping in a jiffy pop pan. All that foil makes me feel a bit claustropbic! I agree with one of the other posting, if you could come up with a way to "roll them up" so you could enjoy the fresh air and views, that would be AWESOME. Then we could use them at night, so we could sleep past sunrise! [SUN]


    Can't wait to hear what you come up with! And, a price tag of 60 is well worth my beauty sleep [LOL]
     
  3. Island Ranger

    Island Ranger New Member

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    A lot of good ideas flying around here. The thing I can't see is why do the US pups have no inner tent in the bunk ends like they do in the UK Trailer tents ?. Maybe the canvas is different I will have to look into this.
    Those Gizmos seem to work well.
     
  4. popuprx

    popuprx "Mother Nature's Silver Seed"

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    I also looked into the Reflectix for the inserts for my Williamsburg it would have taken 2 large rolls. All in all I just didn't see the justification of it as the second roll was needed for a short piece. I think I had cost it out to around 80.00 for both give or take a few bucks. I would definitely consider it for 60.
    My only suggestion would be to add a "wire" wrap on it, like one of those fold them and store them type of things we so many times see. That will give you the support on the material that you need. I am sure it would add a few bucks to it but it sure would be nice. That and offering a dinette cutout as well.

    Good luck with your venture.
     
  5. outdoorokie

    outdoorokie New Member

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    This was my thought as well. We ended up in a campground this weekend that had no shade whatsoever. Desperate to find a little relief, I grabbed the fold up sunshade out of the truck and stuck it in the window of our bunkend that was receiving direct sunlight at the time. It was rigid enough to go in and out without a hassle.

    One potential way to minimize the effect of slightly different sized windows might be to use the wire wrap on a slightly undersized shade, then have an extra border of the gizmo fabric sewed around the outside that would make it slightly oversized. (Hope that makes sense).

    We would definitely be interested in purchasing the inserts from you!
     
  6. kurtes

    kurtes Reno, NV

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    I'd check it out at that price. I am thinking I need a PopUpGizmo too, it's hot here in Nevada in the summer.
     
  7. popupgizmo

    popupgizmo Member

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    Re: PopupGizmos has a question for Relfectix users; The Answer, page 4

    Howdy All,

    We're ready to roll out our solution for the solar bunk liner. Here's an explanation of what we wanted to accomplish...going into this explains why the final product is what it is.

    Our goal was to create product that provides value, function and the best possible performance relative to the material in this application. On the value aspect, we felt it vital to be price competitive with the most popular do-it yourself solution being used which is using Reflectix cut to fit the windows of the bunkends. Next was function...which in this case we defined as easy of use. We worked on this aspect with consideration for the "PITA Principle"...which states: Anything that takes 5 minutes to set up will take 30 minutes to pack up later and that equates to a real "Pain In The A**"...or PITA. And finally was performance... just how good is the product at achieving the goal of keeping the camper warmer. A note: We are only addressing the purpose of staying warmer so while staying cooler has been noted in some of the responses to this topic, this is not the goal we were after in this application. That said, the liners will provide cooling benefits as well.

    Value: We will offer our solution for $65.00 pus shipping...this is for two Solar Bunkliners...regardless of size. If you were to make the same liners with Cabellas or REI Sportsman blankets (comparable material) you would need 6 blankets to do both bunks at an average price of $12.00 each. Add in the value of our covers being fully sewn and IMHO our product is the better deal. Compared to Reflectix, our product price compares well, in some case costing more and in some cases costing less all depending on how much is paid for the Reflectix. Based on the responses to this thread, people have paid from $50.00 to $80.00+ for Reflectix. When over all performance between Reflectix and our product is taken into consideration (more on that below), we feel our product offers a better solution and thus, better value. Our original goal was $60.00+ dollars for the windows only...we made the goal and actually provide much more material in the process.

    Function: The final product is a combination of "use it right out of the box with no modifications" or, cut to your liking (more on this in a moment). Installation: Based on repeated installations, it takes about 7 minutes for both bunks if you're nursing a cold beer at the same time...less if you wait to have a beer after you're done.

    Performance: Not going to get real technical here, just note some differences between our liner and Reflectix. The most important benefit we feel gained by using either our liner or Reflectix is the blockage of wind penetration. Insulation values of any product that is praticle to use in this application can be debated. But IMHO the true bottom line benefit is wind blockage. While one may not actually feel "wind" coming through the bunkend canvas, if it's blowing 10 miles an hour outside and the temp is in the 40's, that amount of air movement is sapping the heat out of the bunkend...the more wind, the worse the effect. Our liner covers the entire sides and end of the bunks, not just the window area. Covering the full sides and not leaving the perimeters of the windows un-covered is very effective at stopping the heat sapping effect that wind causes and is a better solution than just covering the windows.

    Warmth: Again, not going to get technical here. Reflectix has R-value (the amount is directly related to the application so I'm not going to quote numbers). Obviously any R-Value is good. BUT...the amount of R-value in this application is quite low. Our product has R-value too, but it's even lower that Reflectix. The R-value in this application, IMHO is not what provides the benefits sought after here, in the final analysis, it's the wind blockage benefits. What our liner does that you will actually feel...you will feel the heat being maintained in the bunkend from the heat you are generating inside the camper. When we tested the liner idea last winter with outside temps below 27 degrees and wind at 20+ mph, we were able to maintain 65 degrees in the center portion of a 12 foot box camper with two king size bunks. Two ceramic heaters provided the heat source. Bunks temps were maintained at 62 degrees. When we kicked in a 16K BTU furnace, inside temps could be held at basically anything we wanted...we turned off the furnace when inside temps hit 75 degrees with the bunk temps at 73 degrees.

    How do the liners install: The liner comes as a one piece unit...large enough to go around the entire perimeter sides and ends of the bunks. At the rear bunk panel, the liner is wedged between the top canvas and the U shaped metal bow that holds the bunk canvas up. Typically, we just tuck the liner under the bow at the corners only. Then, the liner sides are spread out in the direction of the center of the camper. At the point where the liner reaches the end of the bunk (where the camper roof and bunk meet), we use two inch clamps to hold the liner to the edge of the roof. There are several options actually for clamps at the point where the liner ends at the roof...it doesn't take much to hold the liner at this position. After making these attachments, the bottom edge of the liner is tucked under the edges of the bunk mattress further reducing any air flow that might creep in at the bottom edge of the bunkend canvas.

    The liners will be over sized for the bunk. They can be used as they come right out of the box by simply folding under any excess when installing. However, if you want a more perfect look when installed, you can simply trim the liners with scissors so they fit to your liking. The material will never unravel so no harm from trimming will occur. The liners do not have binding on them since this is not needed in this application. The liners will be shipped in a box that is 12" x 12" x 8"...so they do not need much storage space...always and important consideration.

    Why we are not making the liners custom sized for every camper: It has taken us over 10 years to build the data base of bunk sizes we list...over 1000 sizes to date. Problem is the sizes in the data base are for the top canvas, not the side canvas and relating the top to the sides would not be accurate. In order for us to build a data base for side canvases, we would have to require every customer to pre-measure their trailer before ordering...that would be a hassle for the customer. And while we could build a data base for side canvas measurements, it would take years...and that is not practical. So offering the liners in a standard large (king size bunks) and small (double, queens, twins) eliminates the need to require measurements from the customer and it reduces the cost to produce the liner...a saving that has been passed on to you.

    There it is folks...our final solution. The liners will be available starting Oct. 18th.

    Thanks to everyone for all the help and input on this project. I know that the final product is not going to be what every single customer expected or wants. But in the final analysis, our solution meets the goals we wanted to achieve: Ease of use that is about the same as the do-it-yourself solution, performance that IMHO is better than Reflectix and most importantly, IMHO, the ability to offer the product at a very competitive price when compared to the Reflectix option.

    Best regards,

    Bob Pitney
    www.popupgizmos.com





     
  8. 3pillons

    3pillons Press hard, Five copies.

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    Thanks Bob. Any reason we couldn't use them on the outside of our canvas for when we are more concerned with reflection than insulation?? Maybe sew them to our existing gizmos to cover the entire bunkends??
     
  9. jmcclung11

    jmcclung11 Active Member

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    Nice!

    I would definitely use these in the Summer time as well.
     
  10. bols2Dawall

    bols2Dawall S.W. Ontario

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    I'd be interested to , but i'm unsure as to what using 2" clamps to attach (in the intructions above) means .
     
  11. wapsan

    wapsan Member

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    Bob,

    Came across this post for the first time. Within two weeks of buying our pop-up I ordered the high wind pop-up gizmos. I then bought (2) rolls of 4' x 25' reflectic for the windows for $39/roll at Lowes. We have a 2000 Coleman Niagara and covered all the windows with1.5 rolls. The extra reflectic and scrap pieces were pieced together and used to cover the wood under the mattress.

    So $80 a roll of duct tape covered all my windows and bunk floors. I did not mind the time it took to size and cut. But if it had been available from you I might have considered purchasing everything from you. Depends on whether I could get all my windows covered. Because having all the windows covered helps with the privacy at night when you turn on a light.

    Not that concerned about bunk floors being covered. If I did not have reflectic left over I would not have done it.
     
  12. NH-popper

    NH-popper Boldly going camping!

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    Hi Bob,

    I like what I see about the bunk-end covers, so I have no doubt that once I confirm what camper I'll have next year I'll buy a set along with a set of Gizmos. I think, however that it would be important, especially in a larger PUP, to cover the windows on the box as well. For example, I'm looking at a Coleman Niagara, so I'd want to curtain off the bumpout where the dining room slideout is, and the big windows on the door side, especially if I've got the extra bed in the box in use as well. It would be useful if you offered a package that would offer those benefits (maybe a package that offers either two flat curtains for non-bumpout PUPs or one flat and one bumpout curtain for slideout PUPS). That way, I wouldn't lose a lot of heat from my furnace (located in the box) before the hot air gets to the bunks. There will certainly be places where I won't have access to electricity so I would depend on the furnace, and not be using ceramic heaters as well like in your test.

    The thing is, if I have to go out and buy the materials for the box area, it's not much of a stretch to buy a bit more to cover the bunkends, so you'd probably get more sales not just of the box area curtains but of the bunk-end covers as well.

    Thanks, Mike
     
  13. friartuck

    friartuck Well-Known Member

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    Well there you go Bob, on time, on target! I had been following this thread until I went camping in the UP last week. We had a lovely site right on Lake Superior. Which also meant we had a, hmm, brisk and cool, lake breeze right on a bunk end (Read 15+ with gusts to 25 and a night time temp of around 33). After the first night I put a blanket over the inside of the bunk end, attached in a similar fashion as described above, thinking all the while that just a Reflectix insert in the window won't block all the airflow and trying to decide how to attach things to the side of the bunk. Now I know the answer is: POPUP GIZMOS!
     
  14. Balone42

    Balone42 New Member

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    Hi Bob. I agree with you that fitting could be a problem, especially if the PUP is older and there has been some stretching. I made mine several years ago when there was zero money for anything. Actually it all started with making a set of window inserts for the Airstream one summer in the Columbia Gorge at a music festival. Anyhow, I didn't pay what some of the others have paid, but it is a lot of work to make them to fit. I started with measurements and then cardboard patterns for the windows. Duck tape held everything in place. Later I realized that a few strips of lathe would have probably done as well and saved me having to remove the goo in a few places. For the bunk ends I got an idea from another person to cement a strip of channeling to the edge of the top on the outside and then clamp one end of the Reflectix in a three sided plastic sleeve. That end slipped down into the channel and then all I had to do was stretch the Relectix over the bunk end and secured it with light weight bungie chords. I stretched a bungie net over each end and it was perfect. Given the amount of time I spent, it took me the better part of a day. Later I glued black plastic to one side so I could use them both winter and summer, I think buying them would be a heck of a lot easier; especially if you can leave them in place. One thing is for sure, the ones I made for the windows are very sturdy, they even keep out the rain, and slip easily under the mattress. I have used them for five or six years now. I didn't even know someone made them when I made mine. Had I, I would have bought them if the price was fair. Good luck in your designing. Joan
     

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