Removing battery VS electric brakes

Discussion in 'Wiring' started by John Rock, Apr 16, 2018.

  1. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    Hi,

    I'm a first time PUP owner and need to offload some tongue weight to match my TV limitations (while keeping the 10% ratio). One of the things I plan on doing is moving my battery to the rear of the PUP or in my car. However, the previous owner explained that the battery is required while driving to activate the electric brakes in case the PUP get physically detached from the TV.
    1. Is this true?
    2. Can a very light battery be used for this purpose (PUP detached from TV)?
    Assuming my 1st plan will be to move the battery to the rear of the PUP (bumper), I would prefer not having to re-wire anything and just put it back on the tongue when I setup camp. Worst case, I leave the battery in the rear permanently and wire accordingly.
     
  2. nineoaks2004

    nineoaks2004 Every meal is a picnic and every Day is a holiday

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    The battery is required to activate the brakes in an emergency, (called an emergency break away switch) It will apply brakes if the unit comes loose from the vehicle.You can use a smaller battery for this if desired. For normal operations the brakes should get power from the TV. to assist in normal stopping. Good Luck and happy camping
     
  3. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    Thanks for confirming! Do you know what would be the smallest battery I could use in the battery box for the task, without requiring to change anything else in my wiring?
     
  4. nineoaks2004

    nineoaks2004 Every meal is a picnic and every Day is a holiday

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    I would think a motorcycle battery might do the job they would save some weight. HF also has some small re- chargeable batteries low amperage but should work for the brakes you would also need a charger for that too but they are cheap and HF has them also. I am considering a set up using the battery and charger for my kayak and solo canoe to run the electrical items. Battery and charger will cost about $40.00
    Good Luck and Happy Camping
     
  5. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    Be VERY careful moving weight to control tongue weight:

     
    Yak likes this.
  6. roybraddy

    roybraddy Well-Known Member

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    King George, Virginia
    Each wheel that has one of those electric brake modules on it will draw 3AMPS when 12VDC is applied...

    You will need a 6AMP 12VDC source for a single axle or a 12AMP 12VDCDC Source for a dual axle setup.

    I guess one of those lawn tractor batteries would work. I have no idea what the AH rating is... This will be only for an one time use of 12VDC...

    I would think the problem with using a stand alone battery would be keeping it charged and working when you need it... I have seen a small battery on a trailer before sitting off to itself and has a green light burning on it. I guess that was to tell the owner it was a charged battery.

    Having a working Electric Brake in the event of a trailer disconnect is a DOT required safety feature... Something you won't want to not have working when you need it. If it is not working and your run away trailer cause road damage or even worse a death then you may have a fight on your hands with your trailer insurance since it is an required DOT safety feature.

    Roy ken
     
  7. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    This is for a single axle 2009 Palomino 2100 PUP. I noticed that "Breakaway Batteries" exist: https://www.amazon.ca/Electric-Trai...3902939&sr=8-2&keywords=12v+breakaway+battery

    Is this the safe solution? Will my TV recharge it when I'm towing, like the normal battery? Since I plan to charge my battery inside between each trip, I could do the same with this one so I'm always sure it's working before a trip.
     
  8. SteveP

    SteveP Well-Known Member

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    You need to keep 10-15% of the trailer weight on the tongue to prevent sway. See BikeNFish's video above and search for "trailer sway" on youtube. If you can achieve that without the battery you're good to consider removing the battery. You can replace the current breakaway switch with one of these Trailer Breakaway Kits intended for trailers without batteries.

    As long as you are camping in sites with shore power you don't need the battery at all. The trunk is not a good option for carrying the battery because you still have that weight on the back axle of the TV. The only good option for battery placement, other than the tongue, is securely mounted directly above the axle of the trailer.
     
    durhamcamper likes this.
  9. SteveP

    SteveP Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering if there are a lot of people coming up with this TV/trailer combination or if one person is asking the same question under multiple user names to see if he can get a different answer.
     
  10. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    Haha! That might be me indeed, but wasn't able to change my alias/username after creating my account initially and didn't get help from the admins, so I created a new user instead. So not looking for different anwsers! :) Under my "old" account all questions were prior to purchasing, but now I purchased a P2100 and started researching how to tweak it best for my setup.
     
  11. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    My PUP has a dry tongue weight of almost 15% so that's why I need to get creative with the battery and gas tank.

    Given that I already have a "breakaway" setup with my normal deep-cycle battery, why can't I just put in a smaller battery instead without buying a new breakaway kit? What am I not understanding?
     
  12. nineoaks2004

    nineoaks2004 Every meal is a picnic and every Day is a holiday

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    You do not need the whole kit, just the battery hooked to the voltage input to the switch.
     
  13. SteveP

    SteveP Well-Known Member

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    1. Just like most other things, breakaway switches wear, weather and fail. I had to replace mine at about 7 years so yours will possibly be due soon.
    2. The kits come with a charging capability, integral to the battery and box. I don't know how to wire it because I've never used one of these but I would expect instructions to come with the kit.
    3. I've looked several times, referring others with the same question, but I have yet to find a kit without the breakaway switch, and buying the individual pieces seems at least as expensive as buying the kit.
    4. as far as using something like a lawn mower battery, how do you secure it to the tongue, would it actually be any cheaper, and why reduce the weight 25 pounds when you can reduce it 40 pounds.
     
  14. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    I just realized that these setups are maybe not always the same, so I took a picture to confirm my setup (two poles normaly hooked to battery in box). How do you test if it works? Pull on the silver wire cable?
     

    Attached Files:

  15. SteveP

    SteveP Well-Known Member

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    That's not an electric winch I see on the front of your tongue is it?

    One wire from the breakaway switch hooked to battery +, one wire goes back to the brakes. The white wire has to be hooked to the battery -. Jack up a wheel, start it spinning, and pull the cable. If the battery is charged and wheel stops immediately the switch works.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  16. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    No it's the manual crank box to lift the roof. That sounds simple enough to test! So I think I can just put a small 12v "breakaway" battery in the box, attached to the existing terminals. If it isn't much more expensive, I'll install the bigger battery on the rear permanently are re-wire accordingly.
     
  17. roybraddy

    roybraddy Well-Known Member

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    Check out ETRAILER.com on-line.... Good place with info for all things trailers including break-away switches...

    My breakaway switch and plunger looks similar to this setup...
    [​IMG]

    I use one of these coiled cables and a D-RING CLAMP to connect the pull cable to my truck side... Being coiled like it is keeps the pull cable tight all the time and not dragging on the ground etc... The D-RING has a push to snap open operation making it very easy to hook-up
    [​IMG]

    Pulling the plunger is the way to test the switch. It is in a pretty tight spring holder and take a pretty hard pull to get to disengage. When you put it back into its slot please note the plunger is keyed for the slot so it only goes in one way... Going back into the switch spring is also a pretty push to get it in. It will snap in place if push hard enough... It is also not a good idea to leave the break-away switch engaged to power up the trailer brakes for a long period of time. This may burn out the Electric Brake coils if left 'ON' for too long. It is not a good idea to use this for a parking brake...

    Roy Ken
    [​IMG]
     
  18. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    Thanks for the added details, I'll be less afraid to break it! :)
     
  19. Wrenchgear

    Wrenchgear Near Elmira, Southern Ontario

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    I too wanted to lighten up the load on my old mini van TV that I had years ago. Mine didn't even have a battery or wiring from the factory, although it had electric brakes. There was no provisions for break away at the time. So when I added my battery, it went on the rear bumper, instead of adding weight to the tongue. I reinforced the rear bumper, built a batt box, and put the batt back there to actually take weight off the tongue. I then added a breakaway switch to get all that working. I still have lots of tongue weight with propane tanks up there, and zero sway issues at all. Temporarily place your batt on the rear bumper, have somebody hold it there so it doesn't fall off, and go to the front to try and pick the tongue up. If its difficult for you to lift by hand, I think you'll be good to go. With my Pup fully loaded, I can just barely lift the tongue after eating a bowl of Wheaties and using both hands. A vein pops out of my forehead and my back hurts for the rest of the day.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  20. John Rock

    John Rock Member

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    Apr 16, 2018
    Quebec
    Do you have pictures of you battery mod? I'm handy with wood, but not metal, so some inspiration would help commit to the rear install..
     

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