Thinking of upgrading 5.30x12 rims/tires to 13" rims/tires on a Palomino Filly..

Discussion in 'Tires / Brakes / Bearings / Axles' started by Micah, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    After yet another blow-out, at least the 6th in two years, I'm utterly fed up with fixing blowouts and giving Big-O tires $50 and an hour of my life every third camping trip, this is getting ridiculous.

    I've tried all sorts of tires and I always run them at the PSI suggested on the tires themselves. Had the trailer breaks professionally inspected etc., the ultimate results being the same... blowout after blowout after blowout. Enough.

    The Kendra Loadstar ST175/80D13 Bias Trailer Tire with 13" rims I'm looking at are load Range C, with each tire having a max capacity about 300lbs more than my current 5.30x12 tires.... they're also the same 4 on 4" bolt pattern, so I think they'll slip right on I might not even have to raise the PUP... There's currently 2.5" of clearance at the shortest spot, I guess changing from a 21.9" tire to a 24" means there will now be 1.5" of clearance... is that enough?

    Should I have this professionally done if it has to be raised? It looks like a minor project, other than jacking up the pup while I unmount the axle... plus figuring out what kind of spacer to use.... there's no leaf springs or anything to muck with, just two bolts on each side of the axle and it's just bolted to the frame of the pup, doesn't seem like a big deal...

    Any input is much appreciated, thanks!
     
  2. Rodger D.

    Rodger D. New Member

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    Sep 29, 2010
    Micah

    Find a set of 13 inch wheels that fit your hub and the
    bolt pattern. Have 13 inch Radial Tires installed on the
    13 inch Wheels. Even with the slight larger diameter it
    will fit in the same space.

    Since the 13 inch Tires have a larger diameter, their
    "Operating Temp" will be lower. The 13 inch Radial Tires
    will have a lessor Rolling Resistance which is a slightly
    better ( less ) drag on your Tow Vehicle. The 13 inch
    Tires are generally at a lower cost than 12 inch Tires.
    You may also call this your Retro Fit since this may be
    a later year factory change.

    If you have had several tire failures in the past it could
    be from using a very low quality tire ( not as in cost to
    you ), driving way past 65 MPH, or a couple of other items.

    Mount the new 13 inch Tires/Wheels before you go
    purchasing a new axle and etc. If it clears from the Tire
    to the Trailer in a bounce, then it is enough.



    Rodger & Gabby
    FltSgt@msn.com
    COS
     
  3. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    Thanks Rodger...

    Thanks for the info, I like this idea.

    I notice that all the tire/wheel combos available in 13" size with radials are 5 bolt hole rims, 5 on 4.5" layout... my pup has only 4 bolt holds, 4 on 4" layout.... is there going to be a safety issue or problem of some kind running 13" radial tires on a 4 on 4" rim?

    I can get standard solid 4 on 4" rims (with 4 bolt holes) and then mount 13" radials on them after I get the rims, but I wonder why no one sells this combination?
     
  4. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    Hmmm

    What about just putting 145/80 R12's on? Then I get the benefit of radial tires without the hassle of raising the PUP....
     
  5. Aladin Sane

    Aladin Sane I'd rather be camping

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    Jul 3, 2008
    Iowa
    I made the switch to 12" radials for the same reason. I had blow out after blow out with the 12" bias ply tires I was buying. I have now had two full years on the radials without a single problem. I ended up buying E range tires, they only cost a few bucks more.

    Here is by far the best price I could find.

    http://www.trailertiresandwheels.com/site/1284278/page/2685239
     
  6. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    Thanks Aladin...

    I've had so many blowouts with the bias-ply's that I've become nervous about the rims themselves on my pup, they've spent a pretty ridiculous amount of time rolling down the road without a functioning tire to protect them.

    So I bought 3x 12" rim/tire combos, nice new aluminum rims all mounted with Kenda 145/80R12's, all D class. Hopefully that will be enough to solve my problems. If not I guess I'll drop another $150+ on E class tires. Unfortunately the packaged rim/tire combo only came with D class.

    Now if only they would all get here before Saturday when I next head out. If they don't I'm reduced to rolling on my utter garbage 5.30x12 bias plies, which are all different brands and I'm absolutely certain won't make the trip without at least one blowout [V]
     
  7. Aladin Sane

    Aladin Sane I'd rather be camping

    953
    49
    Jul 3, 2008
    Iowa
    Welcome to the peace and serenity that comes with good radial trailer tires. I can really feel the pain you where experiencing with those crappy old bias ply tires.
     
  8. sydnisamsofi

    sydnisamsofi New Member

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    Jul 19, 2011
    ok so this may be a stupid question but when determining load rating which weight do I need to be looking at?
     
  9. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    Not stupid at all, I'm not exactly sure but I think it goes something like this:

    First find the gross weight of your PUP, it should be in the manual, you're looking at the weight of the PUP when not attached to your tow vehicle.

    Let's say your PUP has a gross weight of 2,000lbs. I've read that about 10% of that weight will be transferred to the tow vehicle when the PUP is attached, so 2,000 x .90= 1,800lbs.

    Now add back the rough weight of anything you store in the PUP while traveling including water, say 100lbs gear/water (no idea of this is realistic, it's just for argument's sake) 1,800 + 100 = 1,900lbs

    So you're towing weight is 1,900 lbs. Divide that by 2 (since you have two tires on the pup), 1,900/2 = 950lbs per tire.

    So if I did that all correctly my fictitious PUP would need each tire to have an absolute MINIMUM weight rating of 950lbs.

    I don't think that many PUPs are 2,000lbs but honestly I don't know.

    I think this all makes sense? If not someone will surely step in and correct my very basic thinking on the topic.
     
  10. joet

    joet Active Member

    2,169
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    Mar 16, 2011
    e-trailer has 4 on 4 13 inch wheels. I just received and installed today a set with 185/13 LRC tires on a ulility trailer. Honesly can't member how much I paid.
    The weight listed on the frame tag is W/O any options, so figure what has been added to your pup
     
  11. sydnisamsofi

    sydnisamsofi New Member

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Thanks for replies!
     
  12. sydnisamsofi

    sydnisamsofi New Member

    277
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    Jul 19, 2011
    So my trailer gvwr is 2195 so 10% of that is 220, my sticker shows factory tires of 5.3 x12 C which I think are load rated at 1045 then that's not much wiggle room is it?
     
  13. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    This does get complicated fast, it's a weird system.

    The GVWR (gross vehicle weight rating) is not the weight of your pup. The GVWR is the maximum amount your pup *can* weigh, with all water, gear etc. and not be considered overloaded.

    For instance: My Palomino Filly has a GVWR of 2200lbs. But the pup itself when dry (no water, no gear, just whatever came with it from the factory) is about 1,700lbs.

    That means I can "add" about 500lbs of gear, water, etc. to the pup itself before I go over it's listed safe max weight.

    Hopefully somewhere in your pup's manual there will be a "dry weight" or something similar that lets you know how much just the pup itself weighs? Then add on your water (8.43lbs/gal I think) and other gear to get your final actual weight.

    But yes, you're correct, if you load your pup to it's full GVWR there won't be much wiggle room with the 5.30x12 C tires. Especially if you travel when it's hot, or you travel at 65mph or above for any length of time. The tires just won't be able to take it, I know this from having at least 6 blow outs myself with those exact same class of tires, 5.30x12 class C.

    Which is exactly why I started this thread... tired of the blowouts, want better tires! But I don't want to mess with raising my pup to get larger 13" tires on it, so I ordered 145/80R12 class D tires (12" 8 ply radial tires) and new rims for them. That way I don't have to muck around under the pup, I should just be able to swap the old rims/tires with the new ones and be on the road that same morning with no more blowouts! (fingers crossed)
     
  14. sydnisamsofi

    sydnisamsofi New Member

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    Jul 19, 2011
    Who did you order from? I have had one blow out and the remaining tires are old and unstable! Thanks for taking the time to help a newbie! [:D]
     
  15. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    No problem, I'm a newbie myself! Here's a link to the exact combo I ordered this morning.

    http://www.etrailer.com/Tires-and-Wheels/Kenda/AM31208.html

    My pup uses the 4 on 4" bolt layout (4 bolts, centered 4" apart from each other) and I didn't want to get under the pup and go through the hassle of raising it so I could run 13" rims instead of the current 12", so this was kind of my only option as far as rim/tire combos went. I could have just ordered the tires and mounted them on my current cheap-o steel rims, or ordered the tires and new cheap-o steel rims (though I'd then have to have a local tire shop mount the tires) and instead of $400+ it would have been a few hundred... but I decided that along with (hopefully) eliminating my blow-out problems I'd also upgrade my pup's looks with these very nice aluminum rims. Hopefully it all goes on easily!

    FYI I'm only just figuring this stuff out, and haven't received the rim/tire assemblies yet so have no comment on whether or not this will be worth the expense. But compared to shelling out $50 to $75 bucks on the road over and over to replace blow outs I figure it will be well worth it as long as these babies last a few years without issue...
     
  16. md-500man

    md-500man Member

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    Sep 4, 2009
    Kansas city
    Micah
    Our 03 Flagstaff 228 empty is 2000 lbs. and has the 145 r12's, I have blown two tires this year on two seperate trips on a set of tires that are only three years old. The tires are Carlisle and are the D rated load range so that is 1220 lbs. per tire with a total load capacity of 2440 lbs. And I don't think that is a enough. I just ordered Carlisle ST 185 /80 r 13's with a load rating of 1760 lbs. per tire, I hope this solves our tire problem. We roll 65 to 70 on the Highway and have for years but for some reason this year has been the year for blowouts. Our pop has plenty of room to swing the 13's so I think it will tow better as well, although I must say it tows very well.
    I have 13's on our boat trailer which are 4 lug on 4" bolt pattern and have had zero problems, It is a tandem axle trailer and we tow our pop behind our boat ( which is a wisker over 4000 lbs. trailer and all) . Since you mentioned having problems finding wheels we have a place here in town that sell 4 on 4 white spoke wheels for approximately $18.00 each. You can check them out on the web at WWW.aawheel.com or call them at 816-221-9556.
    Good luck to ya The MD's
     
  17. Micah

    Micah If you can't smell canvas you're not camping...

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    Jul 25, 2008
    Thanks MD. I'm already wondering if I didn't make a mistake in not just ordering the 13" rim/wheel package. But the fact is that I don't believe I have enough clearance to run 13" without lifting the pup, by my guesstimate I'd have about 1/2" clearance if I ran 13" rims without lifting... and frankly lifting it is a job I don't really feel like taking on.

    You say that your 228 is 2000 lbs empty how much weight in gear and liquids do you think you carry?

    My Filly is around 1650 or so empty... After adding full water tanks, full propane tanks, two batteries and all the gear in it I guess it might approach 2,000lbs curbside weight.... assume 10% of that rides on the hitch and I'm looking at 1,800lbs tow weight more or less, which is 900lbs per tire on tires rated for 1220lbs each. I certainly hope that I can pull that off on D class radials without a blowout even if I tow at 70mph all day in the heat! If not then I'm going to have to say that tire rating systems need revision [8D]
     

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