Towing ratings: GCWR vs. GVWR

Discussion in 'Camper Pre-Purchase Questions' started by vulcan classic, Feb 11, 2013.

  1. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    I'm a little confused as to weight ratings. My TV (2012 2DR Jeep Wrangler Rubicon w/6-speed manual) has a GVWR of 6232# (per Jeep web site), GCWR of 6507, GAWR's 50%/50% (of GVWR?), 200# Max Tongue Wt, 2000# Gross Trailer Wt. and 4104# curb wt. (all per owners manual).

    The O/M says GVWR includes driver, passengers, cargo and trailer tongue weight. It also says the GCWR includes 150# for driver, and curb weight includes all fluids and full fuel tank.

    So in theory I could drive around (without the trailer) with 2128# of cargo/passengers! (6232-4104) This seems a bit high for some reason. So if pulling a trailer, the trailer (plus its cargo) must be </= 2000#, which leaves me with 203# for additional passengers/cargo in my TV (6507GCWR - 2000GTW - 4104 curb wt - 200 tongue weight) Is this correct?

    Also, since I have installed a 3" HD suspension lift, does this help or hurt my overall numbers? I'm asssuming the HD shocks/springs in both front and rear would help with tongue weight, as opposed to the vehicles original stock suspension.
     
  2. Raycfe

    Raycfe Waterford Ct.

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    Waterford, Ct
    The most important figure to me is the GCWR 6232 lbs. Combined Gross weight, jeep and trailer. As for the GVWR that does sound correct. Do you think the Jeep could safely handle 4 500 lb people :) Your larger tires may have more load capacity, but the higher height doesn't help. Larger tires also change the overall gear ratio. Makes it more like overdrive ..... less power more speed once you get it going. That is going the wrong way for towing anything. And my last 2 cents .... the weak part is the clutch and transmission, with they do not make like they use to.
     
  3. CamL48

    CamL48 New Member

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    Feb 20, 2012
    I think you're mostly right on the numbers.

    GVWR is the total amount of weight you can have in your vehicle. People, gear, tongue weight (the weight of the trailer directly placed onto the vehicle's structure), optional equipment, aftermarket parts, etc.

    So, if you have 6,232 GVWR and a dry weight of 4,104, then you have 2,128 of capacity on that vehicle. So, yes, you can have over 2,000 lbs of gasoline, oil, water in radiator, people, gear, etc. I agree that this sounds high, but it is what it is.

    The GCWR is 6,507 and that is the sum of the vehicle weight and the trailer weight. Notice that the GCWR < GVWR + Tow capacity. That is, you cannot max out the tow capacity (2,000) and the actual vehicle at the same time or you'll be way over your GCWR. You already acknowledge this, but just pointing it out.

    So, if you max out your trailer at 2,000 lbs, then you'll have only 400 lbs left (6504-4104-2000). I believe that If you figure 10% of the trailer is on the tongue, then you're pulling 1,800 lbs and have 200 lbs on the TV. Otherwise, you're double-counting that weight. The weight is either transfered, via hitch, to the TV as payload or it stays with the trailer as towed ... but not both.

    Gas and oil is usually between 100 - 130 lbs, depending on fuel tank capacity. Gas is ~6 lbs/gal.

    The 3" HD suspension will hurt your numbers ... as will anything else that is not-stock. So, winches, nerf bars, hi-lift jack, etc. It's all gear that your vehicle is towing/carrying. If you upped your tires, then the spare hanging on your rear door is probably a lot heavier than stock, too.

    So, 100 lbs of suspension components, 100 lbs of gasoline in the tank, one 175-lb adult, 25 lbs of luggage/gear, and a 2,000 lb trailer ... you're maxed out.

    Good luck.
     
  4. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    GCWR 6,507 lbs, I believe the total cargo capacity ~900 or a GVWR ~5000.

    Another thing to consider for towing is with a 200 lb TW limit and let's say 12% of the total trailer weight as TW, you are limited to 200/.12 = 1666 lb loaded trailer. Gets worse if you use 15% tongue weight.
     
  5. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    GCWR is 6507 per owners manual
     
  6. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    What does the tire loading placard on the door pillar say about max cargo load, etc?
     
  7. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    Ok so GVWR and GCWR are not simultaneous ratings, its one or the other, that makes sense; the dry/curb weight includes all fluids and full fuel tank per owners manual; and I also need to allow for weight of vehicle mods (oversized tires/wheels, bumper/winch, etc.
     
  8. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    You are limited by the GVWR for the vehicle as well as limited by the GCWR with a trailer attached, simultaneously.
     
  9. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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  10. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    I have 2012, stock GVWR is 5100# per door placard, so subtracting dry/curb weight of 4104 leaves 996 for cargo/passengers and mods

    But,
    GCWR per O/M is 6507#, so in order to get to 2000# GTW I would have to be at 4507# actual vehicle weight, including cargo, passengers, mods, etc;

    So that leaves me with 403#, not much to work with
     
  11. CamL48

    CamL48 New Member

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    Feb 20, 2012
    Yep, the GVWR is a completely meaningless number when you're towing anything with that Wrangler. Once you hitch up, you'll never touch the GVWR ... it'll all be about the GCWR. No matter how you slice it, you end up with ~400 lbs to cover all of your vehicle aftermarket options, passengers, cargo, and camping gear.

    Based on your other thread, you have competing problems.

    You won't be able to pack any gear in your ~2,000 lb trailer because the Wrangler can't tow it. You won't be able to pack anything in your Wrangler because it can't haul it. You might have to go with the two-vehicle camping experience.

    Good luck.
     
  12. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    Well considering that my TV ratings are likely on the conservative side at 2000#, and with the inclusion of electric brakes and brake controller, along with the anti-sway hitch kit, and since we most likely will be using facility water hook ups, it's highly likely my cargo load would be kept to a minimum, so worst case maybe 150-200# over GCWR.
     
  13. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    Don't ignore the GVWR or for that matter the axle ratings. They have meaning.
    Your vehicle likely weighs several hundred lbs more than the dry weight.
    Avoid placing cargo in the rear cargo area, it is best to put cargo in the trailer if within limits since only a fraction of it goea against the GVWR.

    Conservative tow rating, hum. Is it cooling capacity, vehicle geometry, drivetrain, warranty, manual transmission, etc? Who knows. For whatever reason the tow rating is limited to 2000 lb and 25 sq-ft frontal area.

    This is not the forum for me to suggest you exceed any rating, been there and had post deleted. [V]
     
  14. Unstable_Tripod

    Unstable_Tripod Well, there's your problem!

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    I think it is a bad idea to exceed any of the ratings. If you were involved in an accident that caused injury or property damage to someone else and it was discovered during the investigation that you had exceeded any of the ratings you could have a serious liability problem.
     
  15. Deskpilot

    Deskpilot Member

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    Consider having your Jeep weighed. Leave it in its NEW configuration, full of gas, spare tire mounted, you at drivers seat, etc. Weigh it at 3 positions, all 4 wheels, and then at each axle by itself. That will give you a new curb weight for your Jeep AS EQUIPPED. You will also have correct weights from which to work from regarding the GAWR. The GVWR and CVWR don't change, but your new weight will re-base your curb weight. The smaller gap from the new curb weight to GVWR is what you are now working with.


    [SIZE=78%]http://catscale.com/[/SIZE]
     
  16. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    All good advice...I have been unable to find a weigh station locally here in NC; all seem to be closed for the last few months; I would love to know my TV's actual weight data as a starting point...

    edit:

    Just saw the catscale link in your message, thanks for posting this! I didn't realize there were other scale locations within a short drive
     
  17. Deskpilot

    Deskpilot Member

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    Jul 6, 2010
    Good Advise is: (A) what you seek, and (B) What is available from experienced members. Good Luck
     
  18. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    Ok got to a cat scale weigh station today and weighed my Jeep. My total weight is 4700#, including myself, all modifications, and full tank of gas, and steer axle (front) was 2300# and drive axle (rear) was 2400#.

    On the door placard my GVWR is listed at 5100#, but the front GAWR is listed as 2775# and rear GAWR is listed as 3200#. Shouldn't these two values combined = GVWR or 5975#? I'm assuming the difference (5975-5100) is 875 payload allowance. Jeep website under specs page for 2012 Rubicon w/ manual transmission shows GVWR=6232#. Not sure where that number comes from.

    So regardless, my GCWR is 6507# per owners manual, so adding 200# max for tongue weight rating to my 4700# Jeep as equipped puts me at 4900# GVWR which leaves me with 1607# for trailer tow weight. Is this correct?

    Now, the Rockwood 1970 per factory brochure has a dry unit weight of 1764# and 252# hitch weight, leaving 1512# dry axle weight. The actual 1970 model I'm looking at per dealer has a dry weight of 1879# as equipped (fridge, heater, elect. lift, etc) and 265# hitch weight, with 1614# dry axle weight. My understanding is dry hitch and tongue weights are the same, and when trailer is coupled to TV the weight is transferred to the TV leaving only the trailers axle weight ( plus its cargo, if any)

    The dealer suggests, by adding brake controller with antisway/WD hitch (which he'll include in price) I should be ok if I keep additional cargo to minimum.

    Sorry for the long post!!
     
  19. 96Rockwood

    96Rockwood New Member

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    Mar 21, 2008
    Whitmore Lake, MI
    ^^ Sounds to me like close enough good to roll. The WDH might be a good idea with you suspension mods, as taller aftermarket suspensions are usually a bit softer, so putting some weight into the steer axle and back onto the trailer axle is a good thing. I like the integrated reese dual cam sway/WDH system.
     
  20. vulcan classic

    vulcan classic New Member

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    Jan 21, 2013
    I actually installed a 3" HD suspension lift, assuming I would be adding a rear bumper w/ tire carrier along with my front bumper and winch, but still have stock rear bumper so I actually have a slight rake, so this may help with the tongue weight too
     

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