Advice, please, boondocking on solar, using a DC thermoelectric cooler

Discussion in 'Boondocking' started by JayGoCamper, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    The only incorrect information is coming from you. I am done. Do with this thread as you wish. Last time this came up I found myself arguing that water could actually get colder than 32 F. There were those saying water could only get down to 32F. I am out.
     
  2. 8lugnutz

    8lugnutz Member

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    Your comment was: Salt water in a bottle will act no different than fresh water in a bottle or a block of steel.

    In that statement, it will not act any different, as in either fresh or salt water will both participate in the act of melting. The ice in my salt water blocks pictured, after 5 days, was still frozen.

    Pure water freezes at 32 degrees; salt water freezes at a lower temperature, depending on how much salt is in the water. Here are some examples:
    • Seawater freezes at 28.4 degrees Fahrenheit
    • A 10-percent salt solution freezes at 20 degrees Fahrenheit
    • A 20-percent solution freezes at 2 degrees Fahrenheit
    Would you agree that the presence of ice, in a salt water block, as pictured, with a 20 percent solution, would indicate that the temperature of that ice in the bottle is less than 32 degrees? The water contained therein is also the same 20% solution, so would you agree that it is possible for the water inside that bottle to be less than 32 degrees? If so, then how can anyone arrive at a conclusion that salt water blocks not colder?

    My point is not to argue thermal dynamics or physics, my point is simply that salt water blocks are colder that fresh water blocks, and from my personal experience and experimentation, they also last longer.
     
  3. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    I said I was done. Given time to equalize there will be no difference.
     
  4. 8lugnutz

    8lugnutz Member

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    I didn’t force you to reply.
    Time and equalization was also not in question. The temperature of the ice inside the bottle was.
     
  5. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    Just to be clear. You say that salt ice in a minus 20 F freezer will be colder than fresh water in the same cooler.
     
  6. 8lugnutz

    8lugnutz Member

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    No, I never stated that. I stated known scientific facts about the temperature at which each freezes, and then asked several questions that remain unanswered.

    In post #30, you made a statement I agree with, let's start back from there and move forward: "I freeze fresh water down to minus 20 F. If I froze salt water right next to it, it would still be minus 20 F." That is true, and I agree. In the statement before and in that same post, you said, " ...it doesn't matter when it melts only what temperature it is." I truly seek to understand this statement. Do you mean it doesn't matter when the (salt | fresh) ice block melts, only what the cooler temperature is? If so, then I agree with that statement also, but that also has never been the subject of my statements.

    I believe where our disconnect started and continued the ambiguity of our statements with our responses to this:
    "Salt water (the subject of that statement) in a bottle will act no different than fresh water in a bottle or a block of steel."

    My response was "..it (the salt block) will be colder ", and I believe your response of "It will not be colder" you were actually referring to "it" being the cooler in your reply. Now that I believe I understand your statements correctly (I hope), let's move on and I'll explain why I still disagree.

    Two of the same brand cooler, bought at the same time from the same store. One contained a salt block from my deep freeze, and one contained a fresh water block, from the same location in the deep freeze. Both coolers were kept in the same location: in my garage, out of the sun, only opened once a day, just as we would do on our camping trip. Ice blocks in same location in the cooler. Same amount of frozen spaghetti from the same deep freeze as the blocks was placed in the same location in relation to the cooler and the blocks inside each cooler. Here's the result after three days, and what has convinced me to use salt water blocks:

    In the cooler with the salt water block, the salt water block itself was just beginning to thaw. It contained less than 1/4 inch of salt water around a very frozen core. The contents were also beginning to thaw, but were still 90% - 95% frozen. I could not manipulate the contents of the still very much frozen spaghetti in the bag.​

    In contrast, the cooler with the fresh water block had more than 1/2 inch of fresh water surrounding the frozen core. The contents were much more thawed, and I could even manipulate the contents of the spaghetti in the bag especially around the edges, although it did still contain ice crystals. There was still a frozen core in the middle that could not be busted up.​

    In this experiment, controlled to the extent that I could and of what would really happen on our camping trips, the salt water block kept my food frozen longer than the fresh water blocks. I don't see how anyone can say that it's not colder inside the cooler when the contents contained therein clearly proved otherwise. I don't understand the physics of it, but I do know that it kept my food frozen longer.

    FWIW, on Friday morning of our camping trip, our bacon still had ice crystals in the middle of it when I pulled apart the slices to cook it after being in our cooler since Sunday afternoon. That's the real world application, and not a lab experiment. The test was definitive and very conclusive for me, both in experimenting and in the real world: I will use salt water blocks, because they keep my food colder, for a longer period of time.

    To end this needless banter and tie it back into the thread, I will also not use a ThermoElectric cooler, because mine once failed on a 17 day trip and left me with spoiled food. I love my solar, but not to run the aforementioned cooler.

    Chik-Fil-A is better than KFC. There. I said it.
     
  7. JayGoCamper

    JayGoCamper Member

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    holy cow...I missed a brouhaha. My thought on salt ice is based on watching my parents use it to super chill ice for an old hand cranked ice cream freezer. I thought it would be good to have some salt ice in plastic bottles for rapid pre chilling my coolers prior to packing them.
     
  8. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    With this I agree. How about Popeye's
     
    Blackripley likes this.
  9. 8lugnutz

    8lugnutz Member

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    It's Louisiana fast! (shortened from the previous slogan of “So fast, you get your chicken before you get your change”)
     
  10. JayGoCamper

    JayGoCamper Member

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    Our little town goes crazy for each new chain that opens here. Sonic and Appleby's were mobbed in the first days and weeks and then business settled down to a steady flow.

    Popeyes is the latest chain and got the same welcome. However, they were Louisiana slow in filling orders, so their business seems to have slowed way down. I won't eat KFC, so I am hoping they can stay open.
     
  11. 8lugnutz

    8lugnutz Member

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    You didn’t miss anything JayGoCamper. Just a couple of guys passionate about camping misunderstanding each other. [:D]

    I actually grew up near the original Kentucky Fried Chicken that was in Corbin, KY. I can still remember the smell of the chicken grease when you first walked in, it permeated the whole building. But man it was sooooo good. Quite a change in the product since the Colonel died though. I’m convinced that the Colonel wouldn’t use a thermoelectric cooler to keep his chicken in.
     

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