Auto Leveling

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Repairs & Maintenance' started by jfondren3, Dec 5, 2019.

  1. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Well-Known Member

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    An " electric younger jack" is an electric toung jack that makes you feel younger as you don't have to exert energy to lift or lower something. Thats a technical defenition, surpised you dont know it[:D]
     
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  2. Econ

    Econ Active Member

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    Heard of an electric tongue jack. I feel younger after dropping 4 stabs and a tongue jack manually<GG>

    Someone asked why dont you carry an electric drill to lower your stabs. Lets see, a drill that will eventually fail. A charger to maintain and store. BAtteries to charge. Batteries that go dead without warning. Got to figure out how to charge the battery off of solar. For what, to save 60 seconds compared to a hand wrench if you dont have to look for the drill? A wrench that hasnt failed me yet and never has been charged.

    "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but no simpler.” Albert Einstein

    "Less is more"

    "Uncomplicate your life and enjoy it."
     
  3. bheff

    bheff Well-Known Member

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    And yet we all tow a trailer into the unknown, to raise the roof, plug into electricity, hook to water, flip on 12 volt systems or put out the solar panels.
    Simplicity is strictly a personal situation. For me an impact to drop the stabs saves more time than it does to grab a battery off of the charger. Just like my electric top winch. It may fail but the other 99% of the time it is a peice of luxury that makes my day easier.
     
  4. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

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    There is nothing wrong with saying " the frame seems pretty strong" You must think at such an advanced level that you can't relate to simple observations. I can look at a thin piece of steel or a thick piece of the same steel and say that looks strong and that doesn't. I sure you can correct me because I am not taking into the account the gravitational affects do to the different masses of the steel. You still have not answered how pop up frames are designed to only accept force in one direction. I would like to be educated.
     
  5. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    [LOL]
     
  6. SHFL

    SHFL Active Member

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    1380ken - I did a quick shear and moment anaylsis for a simplified camper loading, considering first supports being only the tires and the tongue jack. Then I analyzed again considering only the stabilizers as supports.

    Let me say — only stabilizers is a BAD THING if the frame has been designed for tire & tongue jack support.

    Please let me know if you want to see the diagrams — I’ll draw them up all nice and pretty. :smiley: This is what happens when I have free time after final exams are done...
     
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  7. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

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    The op is trying to figure if he could auto level the camper. You could certainly put jacks near where the axle attaches and one at the tongue. You could also add gussets and a couple more cross members. My point was that it would not be an impossible feat. Your analysis doesn't answer the question of how the frame is designed to only accept force in one direction.
     
  8. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    upload_2019-12-10_7-50-31.gif
     
  9. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

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    He has an answer for everything
     
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  10. Econ

    Econ Active Member

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  11. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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  12. Econ

    Econ Active Member

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    Did I accuse you of temporary snow induced insanity?????? AKA cabin fever. <GG>
    This is an oil thread. Royal Purple and all who use it are XXXX. Synthetic is better than dino oil. Multi viscosity is crap. Hey, It isnt even snowing here <GG>
     
  13. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    You linked a map of current snow depth
     
  14. SHFL

    SHFL Active Member

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    The answer is actually in the shear and moment diagrams. I’ll draw them up, and make a short video – – no one really wants to READ any of this. What it comes down to is the frame is experiencing a negative moment if it is supported by the tires and the tongue jack. The frame is experiencing a positive moment if it is only supported by the stabilizers.

    Now, you could actually design the frame to support both negative and positive moment, but it is most likely that the inexpensive pop-up frames are designed only for the loads that they are expected to encounter.

    I’ll go ahead and make the video and post it this evening. Hopefully that will put this whole discussion to rest.

    AND, before anybody gives me a hard time about how there are two tires and only 1 tongue jack, or there are actually 4 stabilizers, or how the load is actually shared between the four stabilizers, two tires and one tongue jack, I said that this was a simplified analysis, so it’s only in two dimensions. The important thing to realize is that you will have a negative moments in one case and positive moments in the other.
    (Moments will tend to make a beam deflect upward or downward; with a negative moment the center of the beam will deflect upward, with a positive moment the center of the beam would deflect downward – – more or less… )
     
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  15. SHFL

    SHFL Active Member

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    1380ken — you are correct — I didn’t (and won’t) answer the question about HOW the frame is designed, but I will look at how the loading, internal shear, and internal moment are different if the camper is supported only by the stabilizers.

    One could infer that if that is not the intended loading, it might not be designed to carry that load.

    I learned one important thing tonight — videos recorded at 11:00pm, after a busy day, can be veeeeeerrrrrrrry sloooooooow. (I though I was speaking more quicky.)

    The video is in 2 parts (next post), and I have included stills of the 4 slides in this post.
    If anyone is having trouble falling alseep — this might be just the thing for you...
    Update — no video tonight — I have to upload it to YouTube... and that’s not happening tonight. Let me know if you want me to post it later.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
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  16. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

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    The op wasn't planning on using the stabilizers or even the location of the stabilizers. He was trying to imagine if a self leveling system could be made. Instead of trying to prove me wrong, not even sure what I said at this point, why not see if it could be done. I don't believe that it is impossible.
     
  17. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    Whatever.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  18. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    Awesome! "A" for effort!!

    I actually had two of the engineers that I work under here in the office take a look at your diagrams. They had big smiles on their faces and they were very impressed. Both said that they struggled with Force Moment diagrams when they were in college.

    Way over my head![LOL]
     
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  19. WrkrBee

    WrkrBee Well-Known Member

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    Awesome! "A" for effort!! Agree. I like the way the information was presented and noted.
    I've used the "Sum of the moments" to show why bolts were breaking during a setup procedure.
     
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  20. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

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    Those force diagrams only state the obvious. If you change the support location on any object the forces will change. The question is: is the frame strong enough and how much work would it take to make the frame strong enough. Before BikeNFish freaks out at me. I assume that not all campers even have the same frame.
     

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