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Discussion in 'Boondocking' started by Pirate_Popup, Dec 14, 2015.
I have a couple of those single burners. One is still in it's box.
I just picked up a 502 like Byrd_Huntr’s can’t wait to try it out. Also got an Optimus 80 I’m dying to try. Maybe I’ll bring one to work with me and have a hot lunch this week.
@xxxapache - I guess I need to start looking more at estate sales and thrift shops. We have plenty of stuff ourselves so I haven't gone to those as much as I used to do. I bought our 413 for $5 at a yard sale 10 years ago or so.
The Dual Fuel versions are still on the market new....
I've never owned one personally, but have used them plenty. In a lot of ways, easier to use than my MSR Whisperlite stove...
I know they still sell the dual fuel ones, but I haven't been impressed with the 2-burner dual fuel ones we've used at group events a couple of times. We like having the white gas stoves. I don't even think the MSR Whisperlite is difficult, since Courtenay figured out how to simmer on it.
I've got to ask. What was the drawback you saw to the dual fuel 2 burners compared to straight white gas models? I've never noticed a functional difference between the two when using white gas... I know the burners are jetted slightly differently, and yes the dual fuel model is LOUD comparatively, but they both boil water quick, they both simmer well if you know what you are doing, I am pretty sure the noise difference is because of the different jetting in the burners. Same goes for the dual fuel lanterns. They are loud compared to straight white gas lanterns...
Maybe we didn't have enough time using the dual fuel, but I wasn't impressed by its power. We only used it a time or two on a group trip. My parents had a white gas Coleman before I was born, so that's what's most familiar to me. (I don't particular care for our LP lantern either, but it was useful on a trip when white gas was banned, the only reason we bought it.)
How odd, the burner output between the 424 (Dual Fuel) and 425 (White gas only) is the same. 7500 BTU on primary, 6500 secondary.
There are several models though. Those are both base models. You might have been comparing a standard dual fuel with a high output white gas only model. Only thing I can think of... Eh. Either way, good stoves...
My dual fuel and white gas only stoves seem to perform the same to me.
I have a duel fuel Coleman that I have had for years it has always worked well for me backpacking and canoe camping I can actually simmer with it. For camping with the TT I use a 2 burner Coleman that I converted to LP and I carry a spare LP bottle for it and my grill.
I haven't read all the post, but I have lots of stove experience. I've done the white gas stoves that you have to pump. I stopped because I don't like to pump it. I've use a basic Coleman stove for cooking, but at high altitudes it doesn't boil water very fast. I used a Coleman RoadTrip, but stopped because its too heavy and takes up 2 much space.
I had a giant Camp Chef that had 60,000 BTU output. Made coffee fast, and boiled water fast, but it was too big and bulky and we only used it to heat water not cook. Plus we brought a 20# tank just for it. I ended up buying the 2 burner Camp Chef that has 40,000 Btu (20,000 BTU/burner). It heats up water fast and is small and portable. The only draw back is it eats up propane.
So I currently use the basic Coleman stove and the 2 burner Camp Chef. I tend to cook for about 9-12 people, so I need lots of burners.
Wow, 20K BTU per burner? That's pretty awesome! I wasn't even aware Camp Chef made anything other than giant 2 burner 60K BTU stoves s that require a 20lb tank all on their own, and the 2 burner propane stove / oven combo unit that has the 7.5K BTU burners.
The basic Coleman Classic 2 burner propane stove has been nothing but reliable for me. Boils water plenty fast. But I don't camp high up, or in very cold climates. I am pretty sure the one my folks had when I was a kid and we camped in the mountains was effectively the same sort of rig, and coffee in the morning was always ready without much fuss....
The Camp Chef is pretty interesting though. Looks like they have a good unit out.
With the 20K BTU output, how hard is the output to control? Can you get it down to a simmer easily?
Simmer, hmmm. I don't think i tried to simmer on it. I don't think it would simmer very well, but I'm not to sure. Great now I'm curious.
The Coleman simmers great. We do a lot of carne picada in camp and that requires simmering / sauteeing the potatoes....
I carry out the 3-burner from the PUP and place it on a folding table and connect it to the PUP propane. We've used it at altitudes approaching 4000' with no problem. When tent camping we have a two burner Leisure Line Coleman propane stove. I have used it at 24F and about 2000' with no problems. The biggest fault I fine in the Leisure Line is no wind wings, so any wind at all makes using it for low heat cooking near impossible.
If it's just me, I will often only bring my Coleman 2-burner (purchased when I was 16)... If I am camping with others I bring the Pro 90 (purchased because I missed the 3-burner in my Starcraft). Of course I still have the stove/ oven in the tt if needed but my cooking is done outdoors.
Altitude and temperature are things to consider with portable stoves, as well as wind. We live at 6000', and most of our camping is higher still. A couple of our favorite campgrounds in CO are 8-9,000'+, and Courtenay backpacks at 10,000' or so. That's one reason we've stuck with the white gas MSR Whisperlite for backpacking - it works at altitude, with the refillable fuel tank he knows how much fuel he has and can begin each trip with as much as he need (+some extra for safety). He does have a wind shield for it, but will try to find a wind break if necessary to cook.
We still do cook outside on some trips, but having the inside stove for simple meals has been a great benefit to having the pups and TT. Crouching behind a wind break of some sort because it's too windy to easily cook, wind wings or not, on the Coleman got old a long time ago.
On the inside LP stoves, we haven't had issues due to altitude or temperature. With our propane campfire, we noticed an improvement when we began to use the larger (20#) tank rather than 1# canisters. Friends have noticed the same thing, when they use their 5# tank rather than 1# canisters for their LP camp stoves. They just got their third one in the past 20 years or so. They have worn out the first two. So far, we have been able to maintain the Coleman white gas ones. Our 413 is from the late 60 or early 70s, one of the 425s is late 80s; the other early 90s. (We had a valve go the night before a trip, no place in town to buy it, so bought a new stove. Once we got the replacement valve, we've had both to use. That was handy for group trips.)
Your observations are a bit, well, backwards from what I would expect. Propane, and by extension isobutane, work by the pressure differential between the vessel (fuel tank, bottle, whatever you want to call it) and the surrounding atmosphere. Thus the higher in elevation you go, the less surrounding air pressure there is, the higher the differential, thus they should theoretically work better at higher altitudes. HOWEVER, the vessel pressure drops, dramatically with temperature drops, and propane often ceases flowing because the pressure in the vessel is too low somewhere in the 20s Fahrenheit I believe. I know at sea level, the 16.4oz cylinders quit working in the upper 20s when there is still about 3/4 of the fuel in the cylinder. That is why a lot of cold weather backpackers keep their isobutane cylinders in their jackets, or use white gas...
Don't get me wrong, I am not doubting you, I am just curious how the physics works....
@dbhost I don't know how much is altitude, how much is temperature, and how much is a combination, we just go by what has worked for us. We haven't switched from white gas for backpacking partly because of the reputation for the canisters not working well at altitude, for whatever reason. Not to mention, having to deal with empty ones and partially filled ones - so much easier to just fill the fuel bottle with gas before a trip and know how much is in it. The Whisperlite is supposedly not good for simmering, but Courtenay found along time ago that the secret is to not over-pressurize it, and so he can simmer on it.
I've had issues with lighters over the years, bought a really nice butane one with a flexible end while I was back east. I thought it'd be so handy for stoves and lanterns, used it the rest of that trip - until I got home, where it refused to work. Don't know the reason, just know the problem. Too lazy to haul it around to use it at lower altitudes.
We do know why the refrigerator in the TT takes lots of ignition clicks to stay lit when we're above about 7200-7500'. The set pressure on the LP regulator is such that, at high altitudes, it blows out that little flame. (The stove in the TT isn't nearly as fussy.) Dometic recommends running the refrigerator only on electricity above 5000', which is not practical. Neither is having the pressure reset, since we camp everywhere from close to sea level to above 9000'. Given how much of the continent is above 5000', it's too bad they don't have some sort of adjustment button at the refrigerator.