Cyanoacrylate & ABS

Discussion in 'Roof/Floor Repair & Maintenance' started by Peters Dad, Dec 5, 2015.

  1. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    2002 Coleman Sun Valley - Being new to PopUpPortal I have been reading and reading about ABS roof repair as my roof started cracking a couple of years ago. They are all hairline cracks, some being thick and some being fine. I tried the 3M 5200 marine sealant, squishing it into the cracks, but that honestly didn't work. I've read about making the ABS pellets/MEK slurry and some people are happy with that and others find cracks developing again (I can't imagine how strong the odor would be too- yikes!). One thing I have not seen on this site (maybe I haven't read close enough) is a plastic repair solution found elsewhere on the internet... that is, using cyanoacrylate (Super Glue) and baking soda. I've begun experimenting based on what I've seen on these other sites. USE GLOVES AND EYE PROTECTION. I drill a hole through the roof at either end of the crack then use a Dremel tool to open the crack about 1/32" - 1/16". I work in lengths of three or four inches but you could probably go longer, especially if you have another person helping. I soak the open crack with cyanoacrylate then quickly pack baking soda into the wet glue (I do not use the gel type glue). Using a gloved finger or an implement, push the baking soda into the crack. The mixture immediately becomes extremely hard and seems to bond extremely well. Then I sand it level. Aesthetically it's not the prettiest thing I've ever seen but I plan on putting two thin coats of Grizzly Grip or Monstaliner over the entire top to fill in any imperfections and protect the top from future damage. I've attached some photos (they only allow four so I will put additional ones on the next post/reply/thread) so hope they come through. Continued in the next post...
     

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  2. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    To continue this cyanoacrylate ABS repair... With this process of combining Super Glue with baking soda it is difficult to repair vertical cracks. The glue drips out and the baking soda wants to fall to the floor before going in the crack. I keep a rag handy to clean up the dripping glue and try to get the baking soda in there as quickly as possible. It takes a couple more tries to fill the crack and it's even messier than doing an horizontal crack. The baking soda seems to get every where but, hey, it's only baking soda- harmless. I try to mask off areas but the glue drips do collect baking soda and sometimes just the drips harden before you can wipe them away (see photos). But they will sand away. You'll see in the photos that I did not drill a hole at the end of the crack- I'll do that just before I get to the end of the crack repair. This process seems to take a fair amount of glue usage- we'll see how much and how expensive that might get. There is no smell to this process but you do have to be very careful not to get stuck in the clue or splash it your face. I said it once but I'll say it again, USE EYE PROTECTION AND GLOVES. I have a lot of hairline cracks to repair so it will be a long process. I'll just keep plugging away. It won't prevent future cracks but it should bind the existing ones so they don't expand. Hopefully the Grizzly Grip or Monstaliner final coats will reduce or prevent future cracking. Anybody know of potential downsides to doing this? Feedback is always good. Attached are four more photos.
     

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  3. bigdad

    bigdad Active Member

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    I well have to keep that in mind thanks.
     
  4. Kutseena

    Kutseena Running with the wolves

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    :) I too have problems with abs. I have tried mek with little success. I have also tried several over the counter methods with little success as well. I will give this a try. Thanks for sharing.
     
  5. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    An update on my "experiment"... all is going well but it is a slow process. With about 100 or so cracks of various lengths to fill, I've been layering super glue then baking soda, then super glue then baking soda until the widened crack is overfilled. I then sand off (using palm sander carefully and one of those triangular detail sanders) the excess hardened material but feel I don't have to be perfect in this as I will cover everything with Grizzly Grip or Monstaliner. That should hide any imperfections. After sanding I vacuum the surface and sometimes find tiny gaps in the glue/baking soda fill. For the most part they are small and of little consequence but being the perfectionist I am I fill them. I've got a lot of hairline cracks and it's taking a lot of super glue and baking soda. I've been experimenting with different brands of cyanoacrylate and it doesn't seem to make a difference. I've also been experimenting with the gel type super glue too- it's good for finishing off small areas (the regular liquid glue just kind of runs off in shallow places) and the gel works well in the deep holes I've drilled. It still takes layers sometimes six or seven times in the deep holes- glue/baking soda, glue/baking soda. The gel glue squishes out a bit, on the vertical surfaces in particular, while trying to push the baking soda in the crack. But then, the regular liquid glue tends to run out. Keep a rag handy and wear gloves and eye protection. Most of the cracks are along the street-side of the trailer (2002 Coleman Sun Valley) along and within 12" of the curve of the roof. The are some cracks at the back of the roof, again along the curve and roughly within 12" of the curve. A lot of baking soda ends up on the floor so it's a bit messy in that respect but compared to other methods this is a cheap way to go and it's benign stuff (not harmful). There is virtually no smell and the resulting fill material is rock hard and binds incredibly well. Will the rest of the roof crack around my repairs? Probably, but I hope the final bed liner coating will slow that process down to a point where the trailer will wear out before the roof does. I will send updates as the project continues, with photos when it seems to help.
     
  6. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    Did some light "sanding" on the roof of my 2002 Coleman SunValley in preparation for applying Monstaliner. When I say "sanding" I mean I took a scuff pad and put it under a palm sander and went over the entire surface. I'm too lazy to try and do it by hand! It actually worked pretty well. I bought sheets of the scuff pad (brown) that were too small to fit properly in the sander pinch mounting. I was too cheap to go to the store and get something that would work and I wanted to get going on this. So I just attached one side, folded the pad under the machine, and turned it on. Yeah, it slipped out a few times but I was able to work my way through it. I took the AC unit off (heavy and difficult and needed a second pair of hands) after I moved to a large garage and sanded around the hole. Afterward I wiped it all down a couple of times with a damp cloth. Don't use MEK or acetone on ABS as it will be absorbed into the ABS and will take a week or more to dissipate out (evaporate). You don't want MEK in or on the ABS when applying your final coating. This is quite different from painting a truck bed. Through the generosity of a friend I was able to move my trailer to his heated garage for the final preparation and eventual painting. What a life saver! It's a huge garage (20'x30'), well lit, lots of windows for ventilation, and heat! I'm not going to be able to thank him enough... but a nice bottle of scotch might do it.
     

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  7. steve7-4

    steve7-4 'I'd rather be camping'

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    We can't wait to see the final photos, I bet it will be beautiful.
     
  8. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    Drop cloths were taped all around everything I was not going to paint. Then another round of cleaning the roof- this time I literally used my hand and the long sleeve of my shirt to rid the top of any extraneous dust and debris. The fine stuff missed by visual inspection can be felt and the fine dust can be seen as it is picked up by the dark colored sleeve- works great to gauge how much dust is or is not left. :smiley: Using Sprayway window cleaner as suggested by Monstaliner I wiped down the top and left it over night to dry. Tape masking was used on the rubber seal and rack brackets and awning connection. Next up... two light coats of spray-on Bulldog adhesion promoter, again per the manufacturer and Monstaliner. This stuff aint cheap- one can probably would have done the job if I was careful, but I wasn't and it took almost two cans (one can had a defective nozzle so it was difficult getting an even coat [:!] (Remember, no final cleaning with MEK, just the opposite of truck beds. Wear a respirator, this stuff is nasty & powerfully stinky! Done with the Bulldog, 15 minutes later I'm starting the Monstaliner process (no, I don't work for them or have any connection- I just wanted to try something other than Grizzly Grip that everyone seems to use). But wait!... I can't get the can open! Using one of those "can keys" (the other end is sometimes known as a beer wrench ;>) I gradually levered under the lid every couple of inches and the lid still wouldn't come off! The metal was soft and after going around the can many times it was still stuck to the inside rim. I had to use a huge screw driver prying that rim up- yikes! I hope Monstaliner is reading this but I will send them photos so they can remedy the problem. I eventually got the can open but there's no way it will ever seal again. Wear a respirator and eye protection! Mixing was very easy but takes up to five minutes per initial stirring, five minutes adding color, and five minutes adding the catalyst - better to mix a little too much than too little. Follow the manufacturer's instructions and you won't have any problem. Beg, borrow, cajole, pay, or hijack another person to help paint. My trailer lid is 8'x12'+ the 12" sides. That's a big area and "the paint" dries fast enough and the rollers are small enough to make it difficult to work keeping a wet edge on the paint as you go. Two people are best. Does anyone make the wide (standard size) paint rollers out of the same material? [?:~{] The "paint" is the consistency of pancake batter, and believe me, drips get all over everything without even trying. It's a sticky mess so take lots of care while handling it and keep lots of rags around with a bit of MEK for cleanup. Once in my life I was a professional house painter and this stuff was hard for even me to control. Heed the manufacturer's instructions [RTM] - go slow, don't roll fast. You'll figure out a good speed. After loading up the roller I found it best to lay down a little bit on a horizontal surface first then go to the vertical surface, otherwise it will splatter and drip no matter how slow you go. I started at the middle of the end of the trailer, horizontal top first then working out to the vertical sides. I tried to work back and forth across the entire trailer, starting in the middle and working my way out to the sides, as I went from one end to the other, to keep working on a wet edge so it would blend in better. I used extension handles on my roller frames- indispensable! [PU] The first coat, white paint on white top, did not cover completely. I just tried to put on an even, not-too-thick coat knowing the second coat would cover. It took two of us about an hour and 15 minutes to get that first coat on. I used about 3/4 of the gallon can. I couldn't wait to get out of there- the fumes were so strong. [:(O] The second coat started about 4 hours after the first per manufacturer's instructions. Yes, the second can of Monstaliner didn't want to open and was bent all to heck. Definitely a problem. After the first use, I had not cleaned the separate bucket used to mix the paint, before mixing the second can, color, and catalyst. Oops, big mistake! The left over, partially dried, rubbery paint in the bucket peeled off in little pieces into the newly mixed paint! As I put the second coat on I was picking those specks and blobs off the surface- very aggravating. But there was no going back! [BBQ] More to come with photos of the final paint in my next installment.
     

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  9. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    As I noted in the last post, Monstaliner does not cover on the first coat and it's not supposed to. The second coat does that, except that it was a bit uneven due to operator error... me! [LOL] I had trouble on such a large surface with the small roller, getting an even layer wasn't easy. A bigger roller would have been helpful. But bedliner companies are set up for truck beds (smaller rollers), not tent trailers (bigger rollers needed). Maybe a new niche market? [PU] And I mixed my second batch in the bucket of the first without cleaning it out- not good. Big and small, I plucked out the pieces as I applied the second coat. The closer to finishing the more roller bits (blue colored) started coming off. Needless to say I didn't get all of either one out of the paint. In some cases I went back to pick stuff out and in some cases it was too dry and I lost the texture consistency (I messed it up [PP]). You can see that in the photos. And I've posted photos of the specks too. I probably could have hidden the specks a bit more if I had followed Monstaliner's direction of a final one-direction roll to increase texture. But I wanted less texture than is typical for a truck bed and I'm very happy with the finish I got. The second coat took more paint than the first- I suppose that was me trying to get that even coat on there- using about 7/8 of the gallon. I thought about adding paint from the first gallon to the second but with the lid problem there was no way to effectively seal it between coats. So it dried just enough I didn't feel comfortable using it. [SUN] All in all I am very happy with the outcome. From five feet it looks great. From standing right next to the trailer it looks very good. But the court of public opinion will have the final say I'm sure. I'm superbly happy with the cyanoacrylate/baking soda repair of my hairline cracks- easy, no smell, and solid as a rock. [HH] And I'm very happy with the Monstaliner. Being the perfectionist I tend to be, one last coat would have solved my "operator error" uneveness but paint's not cheap [2C] and would have been for aesthetics only. It will be quite functional for years to come. (another post coming with more photos [CAM])
     

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  10. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    Under the photos above it should say, "from 24 inches" not %. Where'd that come from? [?:~{] The photo from 24" shows the rack bracket. I used a paint brush to get paint into the seam between the bracket and the roof. It was well sealed but this will add a little extra. You can see where I didn't quite get the right texture on the roof along the edge. Figuring out when to go back and re-roll in one direction to get the texture you want is kind of a hit or miss thing... unless you want the heavier texture Monstaliner suggests in their instructions for truck beds. Hey, it was my first time doing this [:D]. Below are photos of the two messed up corners. I had absolutely no problem with drips or sags on vertical surfaces, but conversely the paint dried fast enough that when I tried to go back and pluck out bits (had a few bugs too!) and re-roll it, it didn't work so well. I had waited too long. [SNZ] Was it bad? No, not so bad. I'm fine with it. The third photo I'm pointing to a roller bit- evident close up but not noticeable from 3'. In the same photo you can see where I did not go into the depression of the awning channel- you can see the original surface. There were no cracks there and if I have to change out that channel in the future it will be easier. If I get a crack I will pull the channel, do the bedliner thing, then replace the channel. [CAM]The last photo shows my lack of skill in taping/masking things off. In places the tape was too high (as seen) and in some places too low. I tried to keep the paint off the rubber roof seal. It's in great shape and I didn't want to change it out but may want to in the future, so I didn't want it being stuck on with the paint and I didn't push paint into that edge. After the photo was taken I ran a clean paint stick over it and the sharp edges were knocked down. Again, from a few feet away it's hardly noticeable. [;)] I did use a tiny bit of MEK on a rag and cleaned up paint that got on the rubber. Along the top edge of the rubber was more difficult so I waited until the paint was rubbery and pulled the backside and corner of the sharp edge of a razor blade along that edge to clean it off (difficult to explain here), cleaning the the blade after every few inches with a rag. I will let everything set for a week before trying to get the A/C unit back on top. Monstaliner suggests waiting that long before using it. I'm very happy with the results. [CP]
     

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  11. Heady

    Heady Active Member

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    Wow....looks like you did an awesome job! Thanks for posting your repair!
     
  12. jumpoff

    jumpoff I'm in a camping state of mind

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    Peter, I used your superglue method yesterday. I thought it was a very doable and easy process. Using a dremel tool with a little grinder bit and the small drill bit that came with it I enlarged the cracks and drilled a small hole at each end. I then used the little dremel brush to clean the debris out of the cracks before I filled them. Tomorrow I should be able to finish and then I am going to paint the top with the grizzly grip. Thanks for posting an alternative to the MEK solution. I hope this works....
     
  13. slowtrailrunner

    slowtrailrunner New Member

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    Would you consider the method strong enough for repairs to body panels? The nose of the Coleman Grandview SP I just bough is a little hammered and I am trying to decide how to fix it.
     
  14. bondebond

    bondebond New Member

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    I sure hope that does the trick as it may be tedious but a nicer method of repairs than MEK slurry and other methods.

    My one concern would be the vibration test, which is where a major of fixes fall apart, literally. It looks good in the driveway but once you pull it across the road for a couple of hours, those cracks just jump right back out as CA and other similar glues are extremely rigid and do not flex when the ABS and other surfaces DO move due to vibrations, etc. Hopefully, the baking soda did something to chemically alter standard CA and this holds really well.

    The other thing going for you, of course, is the Montsaliner. That's good stuff and should actually do as well as or better than the CA and baking soda at holding things together.

    Please let us know how the repairs do in the long haul. Best of luck to you on a job well done.
     
  15. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    [CP]I got the idea from looking on-line and seeing people repair motorcycle fenders and toys using the cyanoacrylate and baking soda method. I'm definitely not an expert in this technique to say "yes" or "no" to your question. You might look up some of those videos on-line to see if it might work with your situation. [CP]
     
  16. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    [CP]Yes, probably more tedious than the MEK method but a lot less stinky. And the byproduct is pretty much all baking soda with dried cyanoacrylate mixed in. Harmful? I don't know but probably less-so than the fumes coming off the MEK- yuck! Clean up was with a vacuum cleaner and a damp cloth. :) Your point about vibration is a good one. I guess we'll find out with use. I would think the repairs I did would not crack but I wouldn't be surprised if other areas of the top did start with those hairline cracks... however, that's where the Monstaliner comes in. Theoretically (my own science - laugh!) the bedliner will help prevent further cracking or at least delay it for many years. I would not do the crack repair without adding the Monstaliner over it... and would not have done the Monstaliner without doing the crack repair first. I'll keep an eye on it to see how it goes and let you know. Thank you for your kind words.
     
  17. Peters Dad

    Peters Dad New Member

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    [2C]Just read about another repair using MEK. That stuff is just plain nasty. My repair method does not use MEK. I thought about cleaning my Coleman ABS top with it, then read [RTM] in my Monstaliner instructions NOT to do that because the plastic absorbs some of the MEK (most flash dries off) and remains in the plastic for up to two weeks. Once your GG or Monstaliner is on, the residual MEK can't escape- that doesn't do your top coat or ABS top any favors. Not to mention what the MEK smell is like during use, what it can do to you, and dealing with it when mixing with ABS [:(O].
     
  18. eagerbeaver

    eagerbeaver New Member

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    Just registered to ask how your roof is holding up two years later? We just brought home a 2002 Cheyenne that has a handful of small hairline cracks on the roof but no bubbles yet.
     

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