Different octane when towing?

Talonman

Active Member
Aug 1, 2012
107
When I was getting the ECU flashed he told me straight out I can tune it for regular but you will get better mileage on premium all day long, done.

www.westersgarage.com some good info in the FAQ section as well, smart guy.
 

CamperJenn

Active Member
Dec 18, 2012
435
Ontario, Canada
What is the pinging??

I have an 09 ford escapee.... With Eco boost I believe. 3.0 v6 fwd

I notice it does make slight knocking... Not as bad as my old sun fire (yuck).



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yetavon

everything is better around a campfire.
Mar 11, 2010
3,507
Western NC
CamperJenn said:
What is the pinging??
When under a load, climbing a hill, pulling a trailer ect. you hear something that sounds like marbles in a tin can from your motor. It goes away as soon as you lift off the gas, or gets louder as you mash down.....
Cause.....complicated....
You air/fuel mixture BURNS at a rapid rate, and if you cross the "to fast a burn" you get detonation, "Pinging". The higher the octane the more tolerable it is to resist this detonation under load. Many things increase the chance of pinging, compression is one built into the engine, Your stuck needing higher octane. Grandparents had a 88 Caddy that pinged on reg, and 10 MPG better with 93....
Timing advance, A/F ratio and engine temp are adjustable, some built into the computer or changed by tuning the ECU or adding things like a cold air intake with the chip....( just tells the computer that the engine is running cold and increases the A/F mixture. Or get CRAZY and add water injection to cool the combustion temps....

Now the main thing is the AMOUNT of power developed by the TINY amount of fuel placed in each cylinder for the throttle position needed.
that's the balance that manufactures try to achieve between power and economy
 

CamperJenn

Active Member
Dec 18, 2012
435
Ontario, Canada
yetavon said:
When under a load, climbing a hill, pulling a trailer ect. you hear something that sounds like marbles in a tin can from your motor. It goes away as soon as you lift off the gas, or gets louder as you mash down.....
Cause.....complicated....
You air/fuel mixture BURNS at a rapid rate, and if you cross the "to fast a burn" you get detonation, "Pinging". The higher the octane the more tolerable it is to resist this detonation under load. Many things increase the chance of pinging, compression is one built into the engine, Your stuck needing higher octane. Grandparents had a 88 Caddy that pinged on reg, and 10 MPG better with 93....
Timing advance, A/F ratio and engine temp are adjustable, some built into the computer or changed by tuning the ECU or adding things like a cold air intake with the chip....( just tells the computer that the engine is running cold and increases the A/F mixture. Or get CRAZY and add water injection to cool the combustion temps....

Now the main thing is the AMOUNT of power developed by the TINY amount of fuel placed in each cylinder for the throttle position needed.
that's the balance that manufactures try to achieve between power and economy

Ill have to listen next time I go up a hill...

Sitting here thinking about it and I can't remember.


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kpic

Super Active Member
Jul 7, 2013
785
Most, I assume all, modern engines have a knock sensor which cut back power when a knock is sensed. Turbocharged gas engines will also cut back boost.

If you can find it, no-alcohol unleaded has more energy per gallon than the up to 10% ethanol stuff. No matter what *.gov says alcohol has less "energy" than gas.
 

arthuruscg

Super Active Member
Nov 14, 2012
1,363
CamperJenn said:
What is the pinging??

I have an 09 ford escapee.... With Eco boost I believe. 3.0 v6 fwd

I notice it does make slight knocking... Not as bad as my old sun fire (yuck).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

You have the Duratec. Which is the previous version of theCyclone engine family, but yours is not turbocharged. Depending if you have a 08 or 09 motor (based on build month), you will have the same version that is found in the Taurus with Roller finger followers and NO variable valve timing, or updated heads with variable valve timing.
 

arthuruscg

Super Active Member
Nov 14, 2012
1,363
I will use 89 in the Subaru if I am towing a long distance.
On the trip from MD to Disney World, I found I would get + 2mpg with 89. I think it is because Subaru runs an aggressive ignition timing map and then relays on the knock sensor to pull timing.
 

CamperJenn

Active Member
Dec 18, 2012
435
Ontario, Canada
arthuruscg said:
You have the Duratec. Which is the previous version of theCyclone engine family, but yours is not turbocharged. Depending if you have a 08 or 09 motor (based on build month), you will have the same version that is found in the Taurus with Roller finger followers and NO variable valve timing, or updated heads with variable valve timing.

Just read up on the variable valve timing..... So I'm losing out by not having it :(


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kpic

Super Active Member
Jul 7, 2013
785
CamperJenn
Not unless you're going to race the same car as yours with VVT. [;)]
 

JamesRL

Super Active Member
Nov 1, 2007
1,691
Brampton, Ontario
CamperJenn said:
Just read up on the variable valve timing..... So I'm losing out by not having it :(


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I had the Duratec engine in my Mazda MPV. Good solid engine, 200 HP, 200 lbs/ft of torque. The VVT coincided with an improvement in both HP and fuel economy. But for the size of that vehicle, it wasn't a bad engine to start with. I actually drove an Escape with the Duratec before I bought the MPV, and that helped convince me. Strangely the only issues I had were with the Japanese transmission, the Ford engine was fine.
 

CamperJenn

Active Member
Dec 18, 2012
435
Ontario, Canada
JamesRL said:
I had the Duratec engine in my Mazda MPV. Good solid engine, 200 HP, 200 lbs/ft of torque. The VVT coincided with an improvement in both HP and fuel economy. But for the size of that vehicle, it wasn't a bad engine to start with. I actually drove an Escape with the Duratec before I bought the MPV, and that helped convince me. Strangely the only issues I had were with the Japanese transmission, the Ford engine was fine.

The engine is great and gutsy...

My only issue is I've had the tranny serviced 3+ times cause they put a crappy tranny in the 09 and 10.
Had it reprogrammed twice... And the half shaft plus the bushings and seals replaced cause I had a large tranny leak


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kpic

Super Active Member
Jul 7, 2013
785
If the vehicle has a "crappy tranny," personally, I'd put a transmission cooler on it.
 

JamesRL

Super Active Member
Nov 1, 2007
1,691
Brampton, Ontario
kpic said:
If the vehicle has a "crappy tranny," personally, I'd put a transmission cooler on it.

My MPV had the base tranny cooler, but not the towing package version. I put in a larger better cooler than the tow package had. I didn't actually tow that much probably only 2,000 kms per year out of about 35,000 kms a year of driving. But much of that driving was stop and go commuting. I got 215,000 kms out of it before it started to act up, and many MPV drivers (I used to be on one of their forums) have had much more serious issues earlier. I probably could have gotten another 15-20,000 kms out of it, but wouldn't have towed with it, and it was starting to rust out (common problem with MPVs) so it wasn't worth it to replace.

I added a tranny cooler to my Montana even though it already had the tow package with a Heavy duty cooling package.
 

kpic

Super Active Member
Jul 7, 2013
785
JamesRL
A wise move and for many reasons.

Years ago, materials were inexpensive and rough castings or forgings weren't as accurate as they are today. To compensate, components were made a lot stronger than they needed to be for the application plus a safety factor. Today, they are made to meet the application's needs plus a safety factor. As a result, overloading a 2000s pickup as one could a 1960s pickup isn't possible.. [;)]

Then, there are "ooopsies" and from the sound of those who own one, the Mazda transmission is one. [:O]
 

ChocoChock01

On the road aagaain See Rallies below;
Mar 7, 2012
4,027
Generally, the Chevy 5.3L does not have a problem running 87 Oct, but at times when the temp reaches 95+ and/or above 6000 ' I mix a higher octane in the tank.
 

n2cruzn

Active Member
Oct 2, 2012
648
ok I looked at my manual [RTM] and it recommends high test gas for towing, i also dont have a O/D switch.. i did notice the pilot ran smoother on high test. 15.8 mpg towing....normal back and forth to work 18mpg oh well [ALPU] [TV]
 

steved

Active Member
May 14, 2013
389
ChocoChock01 said:
Generally, the Chevy 5.3L does not have a problem running 87 Oct, but at times when the temp reaches 95+ and/or above 6000 ' I mix a higher octane in the tank.


My 6.0L doesn't really care what octane it gets either (calls for 87)...same mileage either way towing the E3. But the "feel" is definitely better with the higher octanes: smoother idle, less surging at low RPMs, etc. I just completed a 1600 mile trip to Maine and back, ran a little bit of everything (even got a tank that approached 20% alcohol, based on the on-board sensor) and it made pretty much no difference in mileage.
 




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