Ford EV lightning slammed in tow test

[TheBlurb]

Nascar is apparently launching an electric racing series next year, so maybe quality towing isn’t far behind. Maybe electric monster trucks are next! Can you imagine how quiet these events would be??

 

[Rusty2192]

Right, but ...

How long can I tow 11,000lbs? Hopefully for more than 5 minutes before I have to recharge?
When can I drive 800-1,000 miles on a single charge, without the need to seek out a charger? Yes, I know it's not typical driving, but I like road trips.
What if I want something larger than the R1T, but the F150 lightning doesn't meet my needs?

I'm not disagreeing per se, but there aren't many options out there yet if you want something other than a small car, and, the price is an issue.

Yet some states are going to force EVs in about what, 8 years from now? Hopefully by then these issues are ironed out.

Also, at least here in Colorado, our electric rates are going up due to clean energy mandates on the electric providers. So I don't expect electricity to always be cheap. Also, I do have solar panels on my house, but there's a larger upfront cost to that, too.

Range will depend on aerodynamics way more than weight. If you can find an 11,000 lb pop up then maybe 200 miles. With a giant brick of a TT it will be around 100 or so, which goes back to the OP.

A 1,000 mile range EV isn’t going to ever exist unless it’s for a dedicated vehicle like a long-haul truck. It just doesn’t make sense to lug around that extra 5-10,000 lbs of batteries on the typical 30 mile daily commute just for 5% of the use cases. Nobody expects that kind of range in a gas car anyway. Range won’t be getting much longer (trucks are the exception here, to a degree). Instead charging will continue to get faster and more infrastructure built.

The better solution to towing is probably along the lines of the Airstream concept where the trailer has its own batteries and possibly even it’s own motors. That way the tow vehicle stays light for daily use and the trailer literally carries its own weight for the relatively few miles each year most people tow. This solution is still really new and won’t actually be feasible for most people for quite some time though because of cost.

As for mandates, we’ll see how those play out. Manufacturers are selling EVs as fast as they can make them and it’s still only a tiny percentage of the cars sold. I don’t think manufacturing will be able to ramp up fast enough to actually meet those deadlines anyway. But we’ll see. We drove past the site where Ford is going to build their giant battery plant here in KY on our last camping trip a couple weeks ago and they’re already moving earth. For the record, I don’t think there should be any mandates on anything, but we don’t need to get into politics

 

[teh603]

Where I am , infastruture is old. The town has 3 chargers, but they are taken by the 4000 people in the 3 ajacent apartment buildings. They are putting chargers in the buildings for the tenents, but that requires upgraded electeical and codes to follow , so maybe in a year or two.

More like ten or twenty before it gets mainstream. Landlords make their money thru deferred maintenance and keeping the security deposit, so any upgrades have to play second fiddle to the LL's income stream. A few luxury complexes might install them, but those aren't the real moneymakers. The LL has to wait until that "luxury" apartment becomes a rundown slum before he'll get a penny off those chargers.

I don't have an EV and feel the technology isn't quite there yet especially further away from cities. All the charging stations I have seen though were essentially small tight parking lots designed for a single car. Are there even stations out there that can allow a truck and trailer? Or do they just block traffic for 30min and pray there is a way to get the longer set up out. At least with gas setups even though we may block the second pump we're not completely blocking traffic for everyone. Well assuming the gas station has room to maneuver a larger set up.

Also depends on states' hostility to chargers. I think one state is requiring all free chargers to put on the receipt how much of a customer's bill is going to powering the chargers, and prohibiting local DOTs from putting them up unless they also hand out free gas.

That having been said, there are parking meter- style pay chargers. The business models right now just don't include them. It's not too absurd to imagine converting an old closed- down gas station into an EV charging station to put a small off- the- interstate town back on the map. Stop for half an hour, have some coffee or lunch at a local joint, refill the ice chests, maybe even swap an empty propane bottle or turn the kids loose at a playground.

Just nobody with the capital to do that, seems to be interested.

 

[Mark60]

The logical answer to your second part is to just ditch the gas tax and do a mileage tax for all vehicles. Ideally it would have a weight component to it since heavy vehicles do more damage. Gas tax basically already works like this since the more you drive the more gas you use and bigger/heavier vehicles use more than light compact cars.

But how often does government do the logical thing? What’s probably going to end up happening is 1 of 2 options, depending on the agenda of the people in power. Either charge large arbitrary fees for EVs (typically more than what the equivalent gas tax would be) or add a mileage tax to all cars while keeping the gas tax in place too.

Logical answer is to throw this administration out on there ass or take them to the train station and continue on with normal life, heck we have some of the cleanest numbers now than we ever had, we can’t save the world alone and China and India don’t give a rip about the pollution

 

[Mark CASTELLANI]

I'm surprised that, after 3 pages of posts, nobody has brought up what has to be done to get the "Rare Earth" metals to make EVs... after all, this is about CAMPING... but hey, just think of how many "sites" can be cordoned off on all those levels

Happy Trails!

 

[Mark CASTELLANI]

MINING.COM

No 1 source of global mining news and opinion

www.mining.com

Happy Trails!

 

[bw1974]

In town = PRACTICAL
Travelling = NOPE!

Wonder how many days/weeks it would take me to make my trip to Colorado Rockies to elk hunt (1,760mi), to then just get stuck in the wilderness at the top of a mountain due to no power!! 26hrs straight with having just 5min stops to re-fuel along the way. Not to mention minimal reduction in towing my pup along the way.

 

[bw1974]

Charging that Ford ain't free...

Nor is it anywhere close to convenient time spent!

 

[bw1974]

My problem is my time isnt free. Plus I dont have a lot of it. At these charging rates, going say 400 miles at 50 mph will take 2 hours for the first 100 miles, then like 2 hours for an 80 percent charge, then a bit less then 100 miles as you only have an 80 percent charge, then 2 hours for the next charge stop, then more driving , more stopping to charge , etc. So 16 or more hours to go 400 miles, thats if you find perfectly layed out charging stations that you can fit into. I am there in about 10 hours. Go on a long trip and its days added.

so, with your numbers....my 1,760mi trip would take me ~72hrs/3days!! That's 4 less days of hunting and enjoying the mountains....NOPE!!!

 

[brettstoner]

It's not "hate" per se, but I resent the fact that some states like California, Massachusetts, Washington, and probably others are (more or less) forcing EVs on people before EVs are truly ready for the masses by banning the sale and registration of new ICE vehicles by 2030 or 2035, depending on state. Sure, they don't say that you must buy an EV, but they've eliminated all of the other choices if you want a new vehicle unless some other option comes along before then. Does it mean I hate EVs? No, but I also see no need to put an arbitrary end date on ICE vehicles in the name of "saving the planet." Once EVs are more attainable for folks, or, once they offer some truly compelling capabilities, people would likely naturally gravitate toward them.

I think EVs will be an easier sell to skeptical folks once they offer something truly better than what I've got today. How about a range that well exceeds what can be done with a normal ICE vehicle? Or how about some great towing capacity? Or maybe perfecting some of those other cooler options, like being a power source for your home if there's a power outage? Or maybe devising a way to more easily charge in remote areas?

I'm sure all of that is coming eventually.

This is exactly why. I don't agree with the government banning ICE to force people to buy EVs. If EVs are the proper application then they will naturally take over the market. But to force people into them, with all the current negatives, is not right. Right now certain applications fit EVs perfect. In town driving, to and from work, living in a home with a charger, etc. There is a market for them. But it is not the end all be all. There are many applications where a EV fails or a ICE does so much better. ICE and EV can co-exist. Also how come nobody talks about electric farming tractors. I think EV would be the perfect application for farming. You have a local area so they can charge every night. The added weight of the batteries to provide traction.

 

[Sabotsailfam]

I don't understand the EV hate. I mean if they don't work out for you, don't buy one. I'm not ready to buy one myself, and probably wont for the next decade or more.

But some people seem to be on a negativity campaign about "this will never work!". I'm speaking in general, not just in this thread. You could say the same thing about LED light bulbs. I remember a decade or so ago when they cost $60 each, were non-dimmable, and weren't that great of a light. Now my whole house is LED and you probably wouldn't even realize it unless I told you first.

Well said, tfischer. That's how it happens every time. Always has, always will. People don't like change. They also don't like to be "wrong" about new stuff that requires a new way of thinking. They should be happy to be wrong if it means they benefit. Look at just about every technology that we enjoy today. It was the exact. same. thing. Cracks me up.

 

[NMroamer]

Henry Ford's first cars met with less acceptance than electric vehicles do now.

 

[DanLee]

My big question is, with all these EVs coming out and them getting popular, when and what does the various levels of Government do to recoup the lost gas tax dollars, which is primarily used by many to maintain and improve the roads/highways??

Here in Virginia the state adds around $40 per year to the registration fee if your vehicle has a combined gas mileage of 25 mpg and up. There is an option for paying only for miles with a guarantee that you'll never pay more than a maximum of $40. It's called a road usage fee and designed to make up for lost revenue from lower gasoline sales.

 

[chiques]

The day when the last ICE is off the road is the day we will see the cost of electricity soar.

My electricity costs went up 47% last month. There are brownouts and rolling blackouts annually at current usage without electric vehicles. There will need to be tens of billions of infrastructure improvements for electric vehicles to take over. That money comes from somewhere, it isn't free.

 

[jdsdj98]

Here in Virginia the state adds around $40 per year to the registration fee if your vehicle has a combined gas mileage of 25 mpg and up. There is an option for paying only for miles with a guarantee that you'll never pay more than a maximum of $40. It's called a road usage fee and designed to make up for lost revenue from lower gasoline sales.

Something along these lines, along with another poster suggesting mileage tax, would likely end up being used to fill new funding gaps. Drivers' license fees as well. There are plenty of existing taxes & fees associated with vehicles that could be increased to cover infrastructure costs as gas tax revenue decreases over time.

Count me on the "greener" side of world views, but as another poster points out above, the environmental toll of building a new EV and its components is no smaller on the front end as compared to a new ICE vehicle. Aluminum, rubber, plastic, glass, lubricants, refrigerant & other chemicals, and more importantly rare earth metals don't appear out of thin air. That concept can be extrapolated out to every single physical object and structure we interact with every day.

 

[ChiefHart]

I would like to kbow the weights involved, but this artical really rips into the distance this heavywight TV can travel.

Ford Lightning Towing Test Shows Serious Problems

It didn’t do well going up against a gas-burning GMC Sierra…

www.yahoo.com

Both trucks were pulling the same weight. They had Identical Trailers.
85 miles for the Elec Truck and more than double for the ICE truck.

 

[Patrick w]

I'm surprised that, after 3 pages of posts, nobody has brought up what has to be done to get the "Rare Earth" metals to make EVs... after all, this is about CAMPING... but hey, just think of how many "sites" can be cordoned off on all those levels

Happy Trails!

Looks like any other type of strip mining. Copper, diamonds, etc.etc...

 

[Patrick w]

Well said, tfischer. That's how it happens every time. Always has, always will. People don't like change. They also don't like to be "wrong" about new stuff that requires a new way of thinking. They should be happy to be wrong if it means they benefit. Look at just about every technology that we enjoy today. It was the exact. same. thing. Cracks me up.

Do you include mtbe, ethanol, BPA, radioactive waste, and Greek yogurt runoff as part of those benefits?

 

[Patrick w]

Range will depend on aerodynamics way more than weight. If you can find an 11,000 lb pop up then maybe 200 miles. With a giant brick of a TT it will be around 100 or so, which goes back to the OP.

A 1,000 mile range EV isn’t going to ever exist unless it’s for a dedicated vehicle like a long-haul truck. It just doesn’t make sense to lug around that extra 5-10,000 lbs of batteries on the typical 30 mile daily commute just for 5% of the use cases. Nobody expects that kind of range in a gas car anyway. Range won’t be getting much longer (trucks are the exception here, to a degree). Instead charging will continue to get faster and more infrastructure built.

The better solution to towing is probably along the lines of the Airstream concept where the trailer has its own batteries and possibly even it’s own motors. That way the tow vehicle stays light for daily use and the trailer literally carries its own weight for the relatively few miles each year most people tow. This solution is still really new and won’t actually be feasible for most people for quite some time though because of cost.

As for mandates, we’ll see how those play out. Manufacturers are selling EVs as fast as they can make them and it’s still only a tiny percentage of the cars sold. I don’t think manufacturing will be able to ramp up fast enough to actually meet those deadlines anyway. But we’ll see. We drove past the site where Ford is going to build their giant battery plant here in KY on our last camping trip a couple weeks ago and they’re already moving earth. For the record, I don’t think there should be any mandates on anything, but we don’t need to get into politics

Biggest issue is that when you burn fuel your vehicle becomes lighter. When you burn electricity, you weigh the same.
The concept you mentioned is valid. But untill someone makes a modular battery system (remember the Motorola startac? ) A 300 mi range car always weighs the same. Imagine being able to shed 200 lbs to make it a 250mi or fill the frunk with another battery to give you 350 miles....

 

[Drufus]

Logical answer is to throw this administration out on there ass or take them to the train station and continue on with normal life, heck we have some of the cleanest numbers now than we ever had, we can’t save the world alone and China and India don’t give a rip about the pollution

Hey bud, I’ve never heard this saying, “take them to the train station”. I wonder where that comes from.