Ford EV lightning slammed in tow test

Rusty2192

Super Active Member
Jul 30, 2014
1,198
Kentucky
Down the road they will be talking about how bad the fumes from batteries are on the environment as well as discarded batteries being disposed of.
Where is the extra energy demand coming from as well?....coal and nuclear?
Solve one problem and create another.
Until someone can defy physics and devise a perpetual motion machine there‘s never going to be a perfect solution. But that doesn’t mean we have to just ignore the better options that are out there.

I’m afraid we’ve already screwed the pooch on nuclear. That would have been as near perfect a solution as possible but at this point it’s too late. They cost too much and take too long to build, IF they could even get past the hurdles to get it approved. Safety and waste have long been worked out on that too. People are just scared of the word.
these decisions are driven by economics in the name of conservationism.
For me that’s what it’s all about. The green I care about most is the green in my wallet. The environmental benefits are just the icing on the cake. EVs have a lower total cost of ownership and are just flat out better cars with instant torque, low center of gravity, no noise, etc. It’s not at all uncommon to see Teslas driving around here in KY with a “Friends of Coal” license plate or sticker.
 

Sjm9911

Super Active Member
May 31, 2018
12,585
Nj
It will work , it just will not be anything like we have now. Think of now as beta cassettes. We then had vhs, laser disks, dvds, downloads and streaming. We are not close to the technology that will make it work.
 

Tonya Harding

Super Active Member
Gold Supporting Member
Jun 15, 2018
1,953
Virginia
Crap load of other factors in play aside from just the EV emission advantage on the environment; the sun, which is a star, does what stars do, & that is get hotter over time...throw in livestock, rain forest fires, countries that don't give a gnats azz (China/India), & folks that like to pull a mildly autistic kid outta school & make her a poster child for climate issues, while hypocritical leaders world wide call for change, yet their carbon foot print can be seen from space...no wonder China is showing such an interest in Africa in an attempt to corner the market on EV battery ingredients...in the mean time I'll be grabbing some Jiffy Pop & settle in for the circus...

https://magazine.northeast.aaa.com/...ectric-car-batteries-bad-for-the-environment/
 

Mark CASTELLANI

Active Member
Aug 23, 2019
634
New York State, Erie County
The amount of "it will never work, because it isn't perfect today even though the technology is in its infancy" going on here is just incredible lol.
@tfischer , et al...oh, it WILL work!... the technology is amazing!!

I'm just not on board with the whole "it's GREEN" PR/Sales Pitch

the ICE dominance came to be through Market Demand not by Mandate...

cui bono?

so, I can't get my head around where the energy generation will come from to charge all those batteries... Solar?...well, it seems to me that we'd need massive battery banks for when the Sun ain't shining... Hydro?... we could dam up ALL our rivers and streams (TVA/ Hoover Dam)...Flux Capacitor?... 1.21 GIGAWATTS, 1.21 GIGAWATTS!!!

cui bono?

Happy Trails!
 

Steveo4090

Super Active Member
Jun 26, 2020
848
Lancaster PA
Down the road they will be talking about how bad the fumes from batteries are on the environment as well as discarded batteries being disposed of.
Where is the extra energy demand coming from as well?....coal and nuclear?
Solve one problem and create another.
The only real problem with nuclear power in its current state is the greenies have canceled it along with coal. IMO its the only way to supply the electric power needed for the future. It's the cleanest, most efficient way to create the most electric power out there. Solar has come a long way but it's still crazy expensive. Wind...expensive and not realistic for most places. Both wind and solar usually need batteries for storage as well. More issues there as we've already discussed lol.

Water...great if you have a river you can dam up, but that has major issues for the environment both up and downstream of the damage.

Nuclear has its issues as well, but it's the best option in my opinion.
 

Bowman3d

Super Active Member
Apr 13, 2015
1,046
LaLa land (SoCal)
Until someone can defy physics and devise a perpetual motion machine there‘s never going to be a perfect solution. But that doesn’t mean we have to just ignore the better options that are out there.
But is it really the better option. Take the plastic grocery bag for example. They were thought to be the better option to save the trees. Now it’s back to paper bags to save the environment. Or you can have your plastic bags but pay 10c per bag here in Ca. Don’t make sense to me.now instead of free plastic bags we have expensive thicker plastic bags blowing around in the wind. Should have stayed with paper bags to start with.
People don’t like to forced into stuff . The electric car and truck will become popular when it gets to the point we’re it’s affordable and more efficient.
The govt mandating EV stifles the need to make a more efficient product at an affordable price.
Personally I like hydrogen fuel cell. I wish that technology would improve.
 

Sjm9911

Super Active Member
May 31, 2018
12,585
Nj
Unfortunately, us as humans have the great audacity to know whats best for everyone, even when it isnt. Sometimes we need to atually think about the stuff we do and take a step back and look at potential impacts. This takes a lot of time, years, decades, or longer. We selfishly decide that immediate solutions are best, so we can say we are saving the planet. But we are wrong. People dont want to think that there lives impact the state of the world, but it does. Everything we do has impact. We are just too stupid to see what that impact is. And too naive to see that we are doing bad. Its all so people can go to sleep at night thinking that thier way is best for the earth. Patting themselves on the back saying I am so much better then the people before me. Wait 100 years, people will look at todays age the same way we look back on the pollution of the industrial revolution. Nothing really changes. And in the end the earth will survive, it may look diffrently without people on it. But it will survive.
As for me, I know I am a wasteful steward of this planet. But , its the cost of living your life.
 

Mark CASTELLANI

Active Member
Aug 23, 2019
634
New York State, Erie County
and for a "political" take, consider this... (not my words... just another Pundit's take)

Sunday Talks, Senator Manchin Says His Energy Deal Will Bring Windmills to West Virginia Faster, With Batteries Made in Mexico and Canada

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau was gleeful last week promoting Manchin’s new green energy proposal because, with steel and aluminum tariffs removed, Canada will be one the biggest beneficiaries of $370 billion congressional spending package. Canada has no heavy industry left, they are the assembly economy for foreign manufacturing that uses loopholes, and the senate bill creates a USMCA loophole for this exact purpose.

The West Virginia windmills and solar panels will be shipped as raw materials from China and the EU into Canada. Canada will assemble the parts and ship the finished goods into the United States for placement by..
alien workers employed by the contractors. The batteries to store the solar and windmill power will come from Mexico, after they receive the raw materials from Africa and Asia.

Canadian workers, Mexican workers, Chinese Workers, African workers and ASEAN workers will all benefit from the generous Joe Manchin spending package.

Unemployed West Virginia coal miners will watch Joe Manchin run for office in 2024 on Japanese televisions powered by China, while eating cheese puff flavored cricket snacks sourced from Canada. Brilliant plan, Joe.

Happy Trails!
 

Rusty2192

Super Active Member
Jul 30, 2014
1,198
Kentucky
But is it really the better option. Take the plastic grocery bag for example. They were thought to be the better option to save the trees. Now it’s back to paper bags to save the environment. Or you can have your plastic bags but pay 10c per bag here in Ca. Don’t make sense to me.now instead of free plastic bags we have expensive thicker plastic bags blowing around in the wind. Should have stayed with paper bags to start with.
People don’t like to forced into stuff . The electric car and truck will become popular when it gets to the point we’re it’s affordable and more efficient.
The govt mandating EV stifles the need to make a more efficient product at an affordable price.
Personally I like hydrogen fuel cell. I wish that technology would improve.
They’re already orders of magnitude more efficient. 70 MPGe vs 20-23 for the trucks and well over 100 MPGe on the compact-mid size SUV everyone is buying these days. And total cost to own is lower on equivalent EVs because it costs a fraction to fuel up and there’s virtually no maintenance expenses. No oil changes, maybe 1 brake job in the entire life of the car, no alternators, starters, or other components to fail, etc.

B39A1A82-8BF1-4A60-B725-00A9F78AEA4B.png
76FD1096-1581-42B2-86A8-9C32B994D9BA.png

I’ve already said I’m against any and all mandates. But even without them manufacturers are selling every single EV they can make with waiting lists up to 2 years long. That’s one reason why prices haven’t come down much yet. Demand>>supply right now.

Hydrogen is DOA and makes absolutely no sense in personal vehicles. 30 years ago before the advances in lithium ion batteries, maybe. But not now. Hydrogen is made commercially directly from natural gas, so doesn’t fit their definition of green. So called “green hydrogen” made with electrolysis requires huge amounts of electricity, then it still has to be trucked to stations. May as well just put that power straight into the battery of an EV and skip all of the intermediate steps. And then there’s the cost. Hydrogen costs a fortune. From an Autoweek article about the Mirai, “In California it’s 4.4 cents per mile for the Tesla and still 29 cents per mile for the Mirai.”

Who knows, it may have a future in big commercial applications like semis or planes where the energy density of batteries just isn’t great enough. Toyota brought one of their hydrogen fuel-cell semis and a Mirai to our office one day to show them off. The entire box behind the cab is just the fuel tanks. And this is a day cab used around a shipping port. 1659305877378.jpeg
 

Sjm9911

Super Active Member
May 31, 2018
12,585
Nj
Thats great if you can get them. My co worked ordered the rivian, was supost to get one of the first ones in January, still nada. Maybe next year or the year after that. Then there is the possibility that if the battery dies, there will not be a replacement, thats even if the company is still around. Take this persons case as an example, it may be extream, but it can and did happen. After all that money spent, the MPG price goes up.
 

tfischer

A bad day camping beats a good day at the office
Take the plastic grocery bag for example. They were thought to be the better option to save the trees. Now it’s back to paper bags to save the environment. Or you can have your plastic bags but pay 10c per bag here in Ca.
I don't remember plastic bags ever being marketed as better for the environment. Rather, people seemed to prefer them, and they were probably cheaper to make. I never understood them for groceries: you can't stack things in plastic bags, they hold a ton less, and they are hard to use as trash bags (I grew up with a paper grocery bag under the sink as kitchen trash bag, and our current kitchen uses pull-out trash bins that have paper grocery bags inside).
 

Patrick w

Super Active Member
Aug 13, 2021
767
The Grand Coulee dam here in Washington is the most powerful power plant in the country, it is hydroelectric.
It is easy find exceptions to most points people are making. I agree, seems that waste is unavoidable and that these decisions are driven by economics in the name of conservationism.
That dam also causes unknown amounts of migratory damage to animals and fish, to the point that genetic natural selection doesnt work because they take all the eggs and artificially inseminate them. Natural food sources and decay are gone.
 




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