From Scratch AC Install - Palomino 4102 - Picture Heavy

[bfahs]

I just completed AC installation from scratch into my 2013 Palomino 4102.
This is the story with Lots of Pictures.

When we bought the camper, we lived in Illinois. We mad the conscious decision to save the money on AC and for the few weeks a year it would be too hot, we would just deal with it. After all we had always been tent campers and camped in all weather.

Then in spring of 2014, we moved somewhat unexpectedly to Raleigh NC. After 2 Hot, Humid summers, we decided if we were going to use the camper May 1st to Oct 1st, we needed to add AC.
I looked around and figured it would cost $1000-1200 to get someone to do it for me. I’m fairly handy, and like doing projects myself, so decided I would tackle this too.

I knew the camper was “Ready” for AC, but wasn’t 100% sure what that meant.
I re-read the camper manual, and found it totally unhelpful.
I did find a good deal on a suitable AC Unit.
I payed about $400 + $100 shipping for a Dometic Brisk Air II. Purchased from www.adventurerv.net. Note, I can see it’s already $50 more expensive. I did not add the optional strip heater as we already have an electric heater that works great.
http://www.adventurerv.net/dometic-duo-therm-brisk-compact-air-conditioner-13500-btu-p-30229.html?osCsid=klablg345vga1l79loaqfgftb1
I ordered the AC. It arrived an amazing 3 days later.

AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

I downloaded the instruction manual to start planning.

I had assumed that I would mount the AC in place of the existing Vent fan as I had read about on many other threads.
Whoops. Looked at PUP and Vent was RIGHT in the corner. AC would hang off end and off side.
This was Panic Moment #1.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

I searched around the Portal a bit, and found another person (Screen name OutofOffice) who had the same PUP, and said they had AC! I messaged them and asked about how it was installed.
Deanna was nice enough to email me a photo of their Pup (Identical except AC) showing that the AC was mounted in the middle of the camper. I figured there must be appropriate support there.
I pulled the camper out of the garage.
This was an ongoing annoyance on this project. My HOA does not allow campers on your lot, or in your driveway for extended periods, something we learned by the letter we had previously received, so we keep our PUP in the garage, I kept having to pull out and put away for the 3-4 weeks this whole process took.
Popped it up and examined the ceiling. Found a single screw about where Deanna had indicated their AC was mounted. This was probably a marker. I had hoped for 4 screws defining the corners of the cutout.

Can you see it?
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Better?
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

I emailed Palomino and after a few attempts, got them to email me the construction drawings of the roof. They confirmed the screw should be “Somewhere in the opening”
"Somewhere" That's helpful.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

One frustration here was that Per the drawings, the piece of trim that was covering the seam between two of the ceiling pieces SHOULD NOT have been right by the screw. It appears that whomever assembled my ceiling had put the ceiling skin on backwards. Instead of how the drawing showed, with an 18” Strip in the BACK, and then two 48” pieces, which would put the AC in the middle of one of the 48” Pieces, My PUP had the 18” strip in the FRONT, and then the two 48” pieces, placing the trim 6” from the screw that supposedly was the “Center” of the 14.25” opening. This did make me question, were the support where they were shown on the drawing? Or had the WHOLE CEILING been built backwards?
After convincing myself that the supports had to be there. I took out a utility knife and cut a SMALL hole in the ceiling.
I then used a piece of stiff wire (piece used to hold insulation up between joists) to probe through the Styrofoam until I hit something.

AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Did this in all 4 directions, and marked the distances on the ceiling.
Success as this was roughly a 14.25” square, exactly what I expected, and confirming the supports were where I expected them.

AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Next step was to cut in one direction until I hit the support.
I did this with a utility knife. It was not easy, I could have used a Dremmel, but I was still scared I would accidentally cut the supports. I kept going until I hit a support. And pulled down some of the Styrofoam.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Worked my way Corner to Corner.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Until I had the whole area opened up.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

I then had to wait as rain was threatening and I couldn’t cut through the ceiling.
This had made a huge mess, the Styrofoam was glued top and bottom to the out layers of the ceiling and it didn’t want to come down.
The following weekend I was able to continue. I again pulled out the camper, and took a drill and drilled through the ceiling from the bottom at 4 points.
Putting a hole in the roof was very scary. But had to be done!
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

I then put the camper back down, and put it BACK into the garage.

I placed some scrap wood across the roof to distribute my weight as I was going to have to climb ontop to cut out the hole.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

I sketched out using a Framing square where the opening should be.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

And then used my Ancient Jigsaw to dig in.
Side Note: I’m 43 years old, pretty sure this jigsaw is older than I am. I got it in my early 20s when my Grandfather passed away and we were distributing his stuff. IT was old then.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Here is my first couple of cuts
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr;

Heres what I found:
A – The framing is NOT in there square. This shouldn’t have surprised me as I have NOT been impressed with the quality of the framing in our PUP. I’ve already fixed several areas under the benches where the original framing was falling apart because the staples they used for construction didn’t hold.

Tip for anyone doing this: What I eventually found worked best was to rough cut to about ½” from where the final cut would be. Then do the final cut where I could SEE the supports and follow right along.

Here’s the final hole.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Another Tip. When I had opened the Pup earlier, I should have removed the mattresses. They got a Ton of sawdust / Styrofoam on them. Could have saved on some cleaning later if I had done that.

The last thing I did on the outside is I bought some Etrnabond tape.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

I used it to wrap the opening.
The idea here is if the AC ever leaks, this should keep the water from finding it’s way into the framing and keep it from seeping into the ceiling. That’s the idea anyway.
I found it on Amazon in a 10’ roll. This is a repackaged roll cut down from a 50’ or 100’ roll. IT cam from [email protected] He included great instructions on how to stick it down.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

That was it for the outside.
But I hadn’t yet figured out what I needed to do for the electrical.
Since I knew there was a breaker, I had THOUGHT I would find power routed up to the cavity in the ceiling. That is also what the AC installation manual implied. I knew others had an internal plug for AC, but I didn’t have one of those. Since I hadn’t found the wires, I needed to go looking again.

I found this, having NEVER seen this sticker in the 3 years of owning the PUP. I think I thought it was just labeling the waterpump switch below it. When the couch cushions are in, this is tucked up under them too.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Inside the cabinet I found this.
Basically it says “AC Wiring is behind this, don’t mess with this if you don’t know what you are doing or you will hurt yourself” or something like that.

AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

This outlet is inside a cabinet under the couch. A long way from where the AC will be.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Basic plan:
Drill through the couch base.
Go up the sleeve (Where there is already 12V wiring to the lights) And then across the ceiling.

Ok. On to another weekend (This had to get cut up so much because of Kids activities never really could focus on this for a full day)
Final Push.
My wife helped me lift the AC onto the roof. We used the boards I had used to spread my weight out on as “Skis”. You cant slide the AC across the top as you will tear the foam gasket. But we could tilt the AC and slide a steel section across the Boards to get it close. Honestly I don’t know how we could have directly lifted into position.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Then back outside and popup it back up.
Had a little of adjustment to do to best fit the cutout.
(Before adjustment)
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Panic Moment #2.
After I had cut through he roof. I found that my roof was 1” thick.
The instructions for the AC indicate a 1.5” thinkness minimum. I made contact with another person via the Facebook Popup Modification group (Thanks Michael Loomis) who had also just done an install. He ALSO had a 1” roof, and it all worked fine. Whew!!

As I investigated, the foam divider that you have to cut to accommodate different thicknesses of roofs, actually has 1 more segment (1/2” segments) than the instructions mention. So looks like they are really expecting to go to 1” now, but haven’t rewritten the instructions. Instructions for 1.5” were cut off 9 segments, and you can see there are 10 segments.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Cut the foam and partially hung the head unit.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Before I pulled it all the way up.
The Unit is designed to have the Power cable come out from in between the roof supports. Since I would be running across the ceiling, I had to do some adjustments. I covered up the intended cutout with electrical tape. And I cut a new hole into the junction box cover to route the wire over to the side of the unit.

Junction Box showing where I covered up the intended opening for the wire.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Modification to the junction box cover.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Finished Modification with the strain relief installed.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Then I cranked down the bolts to attached the base.
Here I had an issue. The Torque specs given in the instructions see WAY high. They are 40-50 ftlbs.
I set my torque wrench to 25, and started tightening.
Before I got to the 25 lbs, the gasket was compressed, and the unit started to deform. I should have been watching better. The deformation is most prominent in the front.
This was panic moment #3. But I basically stopped, figured that should be plenty tight if that was happening, and hoped the deformation wouldn’t keep something else from working. It didn’t.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Now I had to work on the wiring.
15’ of 12 Gauge Romex (Bought of Amazon, then saw $3 cheaper at Homedepot)
The black cable wrap I had in my stash of “Stuff”, I have no recollection where I got it, but I don’t throw much out.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Drilled as close to the wall as possible.
Pulled cable through, and throught the black cord wrap. I also taped the new back cord wrap to the existing black cord wrap right at the sleeve that routes the cables up the canvas.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Underneath I ended up pulling out the junction box a little so I could pull out a knockout in the top to cleanly route the new cable down through the existing strain device and into the box. I didn’t take a great pic, the yellow cable in the pic is the Line Side (Power) cable coming into the box. The new Yellow cable would go just to the left of it into the box.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Pulled the cable in.
Black to Black, White to white, Ground to Ground. Wirenuts, and backup with tape. Shove back in box, and remount box. Put cover back on box.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Found this nice Cable Tray from Home Depot. Has sticky tape on one side to mount to a wall. Snaps open for the cables. I did back up the sticky tape with a few screws.
This was 5’ long, had to cut it to length, but it’s plastic. Cut nice with a small hacksaw.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Screw Backup.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Ready for AC Connection.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Making the the connection was a little awkward. As mentioned, the unit is designed to connect to a wire basically sticking out of the middle of the roof. Since I was on the roof, I had to get into the housing, I planned this to come right through the vent opening on the left side of the unit. There is a finger opening to pull the vent open, and I would route the cable right through that. But to do this, I had an awkward moment when I had to hang the AC Cover, and the Junction box cover, on the wires as I actually made the connection. Took a little work, but I got it done.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

Then I mounted the Inside Cover of the AC unit per the mfg instructions.
I am super happy with the wiring. Everything came out super clean.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Transition at top of Sleeve, hidden by valance.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Transition into the cable tray. Hidden by valance.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Entry into the unit. I couldn’t be happier with how good this looks.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Last step was to shorten, and Re-install the molding covering the ceiling joint that wasn’t supposed to be there. Blue tape to help hold as some glue dries.
Ac2 by bfahs, on Flickr

With the cushions back in place, you cant see anything.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

You have to be a little careful when pushing in the bed ends. The bunk to the right occasionally catches the existing cable instead of sliding behind it.
This was already happening, and this might make it more likely.
I’ve gotten good at using the shepherds hook to gently pull the wires toward me if needed. And if I have someone else with me while packing up, I have them stand at the door and watch for this.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

As I was putting it away, I did see one thing I need to deal with. Not sure yet exactly the issue.
There is 1 nut on the bottom of the unit that is resting on the roof of the pup.
It appears this nut is a mounting nut for something in the compressor. There is an isolation Doughnut that doesn't look compressed enough. There is another one 8” to the right that has close to 1/4” of clearance. The pad on the left is barely touching, and the nut is resting on the ceiling. This is a project for another day. My first attempt will be to remove the top cover, and see exactly what this is, and if I can tighten it more to draw it away from the bottom. Next will be to add a spacer on the TOP of the bolt to again draw it up. Last resort will be to place something under the nut to protect the roof of the PUP. This is a project for another day.

AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Ready to go back in the garage.
AC install by bfahs, on Flickr

Thanks for reading. I hope this encourages someone else to take this on as well.
If you are comfortable with the wiring aspect, and can get over the “Oh my God I have to cut a hole in the roof” aspect, I think you can do this too.
Good luck.

 

[HiFiDave]

Thanks for the in depth write up, always helps folks. Curious about something though. You say you looked for the "A.C. roof support" with your fish wire there. I didn't know the little bit of wood in the ceiling was designed for A.C. support. When I see a typical A.C. in a pup, it has other side to side braces that are steel and exposed on the underside. My Coleman E1 has one of these and I"m told I need another on the other side if I did A.C. LOL now I"m all confused!

 

[TRR]

Nice work and nice write-up. My only concern would be the Romex wire in the canvas. Solid wires aren't really meant to be repeatedly bent. That's why extension cords are made from stranded wire which handles the flexing much better. I worry that when you pop down the roof the wires in the canvas are going to get bent pretty sharply and then straightened when you pop up. Likely in the same spot over and over again. It may not take long before you end up with a break, or worse two breaks and a short.

 

[bfahs]

Nice work and nice write-up. My only concern would be the Romex wire in the canvas. Solid wires aren't really meant to be repeatedly bent. That's why extension cords are made from stranded wire which handles the flexing much better. I worry that when you pop down the roof the wires in the canvas are going to get bent pretty sharply and then straightened when you pop up. Likely in the same spot over and over again. It may not take long before you end up with a break, or worse two breaks and a short.

I'll watch that. I think it probably was about a 10" radius as it closed up, wasn't super tight.

 

[bfahs]

Before others comment, yes I confused in-lb with ft-lbs, which probably explains the deformation and the bolt hitting the roof. I'm going to try to see if I can back that off some still tonight and see if I have done in the gasket. But I hoping with only 25 hours it may bounce back. Damn.

Others have mentioned Romex vs a stranded cable, it does not link tight when it's closed, but I'll watch that.

 

[bfahs]

Thanks for the in depth write up, always helps folks. Curious about something though. You say you looked for the "A.C. roof support" with your fish wire there. I didn't know the little bit of wood in the ceiling was designed for A.C. support. When I see a typical A.C. in a pup, it has other side to side braces that are steel and exposed on the underside. My Coleman E1 has one of these and I"m told I need another on the other side if I did A.C. LOL now I"m all confused!

I think it depends pup to pup. My roof rated to 200+ lbs as is. And the 120 lb ac unit is just fine. That square you can see in the drawings is there specifically to hold the ac.

 

[jman1200]

Nice write-up, thanks for taking the time to document and share your installation. Threads like this end being very helpful to other members.

 

[Jeepguy93]

Nice install. Have you used the AC yet? How do you like it? I have the same one I bought from the same place last year. They had a crazy deal I paid under 400 shipped for the combo set. I think it works great, hammers away on hot days no problem!! I really liked it cause it was around 72lbs.

 

[bfahs]

Have not used beyond testing. Will next weekend.