High Wall Suggestions

Discussion in 'Camper Pre-Purchase Questions' started by dwschoon, Jul 20, 2019.

  1. dwschoon

    dwschoon New Member

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    We are looking at purchasing our first used popup. We like the Fleetwood Niagara. My favorite i have found so far is the Avalon, but think it is a bit much for our TV. We prefer a high wall, and a shower is a must. We need to sleep at least 5.

    Our TV is a 2013 Hyundai Santa Fe GLS AWD. It has 290hp and 250lb tq. It is rated at 5000lbs towing and 500lb tongue weight. I have added a large transmission cooler and upgraded the rear springs. I can use a wd hitch and it has a brake controller wired in. We have towed utility trailer for scout camping and a casita with no issues.

    We are unsure what brands/models are good and would appreciate any suggestions.
     
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  2. Fixitup

    Fixitup Active Member

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    I'm biased. Fleetwood Niagara. I would never consider towing it with your TV though.
     
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  3. McFlyfi

    McFlyfi Active Member

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    Me too. I also would not consider towing it with your tow vehicle. The Niagara is huge. The GVWR is just shy of 4000 lbs.
    Your 5000 lb limit is likely the max tow capacity. Which usually means vehicle + 1 150lb driver + trailer. Break out your owners manual and read the towing section very carefully. Study the Gross Combined Vehicle Weight Rating (GCVWR). You would also need to pay attention to the payload capacity as well, as it factors into your GCVWR
     
  4. dwschoon

    dwschoon New Member

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    I have been through the manual. GCWR is not listed. Other SF owners on the hyundai forums have been unable to find this info either, but they tow heavier loads than this routinely. The only thing the manual says is that capacity is 5000lbs and that tongue weight should be subtracted from the vehicle occupant and cargo carrying weight of 1300lbs. Are there other brands/models that I should look at?
     
  5. dwschoon

    dwschoon New Member

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    Any opinions on the Jayco 1206 or 1208?
     
  6. jmkay1

    jmkay1 2004 Fleetwood/Coleman Utah

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    I loved my old Jayco, had an 1990 before it died on me. No clue what the newer ones are like. Just wanted to bring this up. The lift system in a Jayco is inside behind cabinets, steps, etc. so if something was to go wrong you may have to crawl into cabinets. It’s also a plus, because it’s less maintenance. You should be able to tow it with your vehicle. I have an 4Runner with a tow rating of 5000 and my current camper Fleetwood Utah, has a GVWR of 3600 so fully packed and ready to go I’m at 3100 or thereabouts. I sure wouldn’t want to tow anything heavier though I’m close to max payload with my current setup.
     
  7. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Well-Known Member

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    I had a santa fe, whild it might be ok to tow that heavy, i wouldn't go anywhere with hills etc. My puck up truck is rated much higher and is slow to pull my westlake on really big slopes.
     
  8. Dingit

    Dingit Well-Known Member

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    If you think you can handle the Niagara, look at its almost-twin the Arcadia to sleep 5. The couch makes a better bed instead of having a microwave. (Really, look at any you see. It's not always easy finding any of these on the used market.)

    Like the others said, be extra sure about your towing capacity first. If you live and camp in the flatlands, you can maybe get away with playing it close.
     
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  9. CamperChrissy

    CamperChrissy Well-Known Member

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    2006 Niagara owner here, also family of 5. We love ours and find it so much more enjoyable to have more space (our first PUP was 10 foot, no slide). We sleep 2 people in one bed and 3 in the other. We are definitely comfortable like that for now and given that our children will likely always be on the short side, we'll probably always fit that way!

    Pros:
    king beds
    hard-sided bathroom
    very usable kitchen
    built-in black tank and travel trailer-style hook-ups to use a sewer connection or dump station
    storage under the couch is accessible from the outside and is a great place to store hoses, crank handles, etc.

    Cons:
    heavy, definitely pushing our tow limits (many mods to our tv)
    dinette only seats 4, so one of us just sits on the couch, not a big deal

    Honestly the Avalon would be a better floorplan for us, but definitely too heavy. Overall we love our Niagara.

    One other thought - we find that we really utilize our inside space a lot. It rains, it's 100 degrees, it's 50 degrees. So having usable inside amenities and space is important for us. A HW is a very good fit for that, feels almost like a travel trailer inside. Many are more rustic than me and don't need all that, so just think about your style and needs.
     
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  10. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Well-Known Member

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    The towing capacity is the max amount that the trailer can weigh.

    The GCVWR is the vehicle, occupants, cargo in/on the vehicle, plus the hitch weight, the trailer weight, and everything in the trailer.

    OP - the trailer weight including everything you load into the trailer must be less (or at) the 5,000 lbs.

    Then take the 1300 lbs and subtract all the occupants weights (including pets), the weight of all the stuff you put in or on the tow vehicle, plus the weight of the hitch, plus the tongue weight of the trailer. For the tongue weight of the trailer, you can guestimate it at between 10% and 15% of the trailer's GVWR. If you are left with 0 lbs or more, you are "legal", if you are less than 0 lbs, then you are overweight for your tow vehicle.

    I put legal in quotes because while you are not considered overweight if you hit 0 lbs left on your payload, many people find towing that close to the max to be stressful, awkward, and not worth it. How close you actually get will be a personal preference.
     
  11. Eric Webber

    Eric Webber Active Member

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    We have an Arcadia and tow it with a Volvo XC90 (similar rating) for 2000 miles each way. No issues and we love the space
     
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  12. Eric Webber

    Eric Webber Active Member

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    W
    We did add an Andersen WDH though
     
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  13. Sneezer

    Sneezer Well-Known Member

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    I really liked the Rockwood 27KS, which had the slide out kitchen. I've always liked that option, and there are not very many that have a true outdoor kitchen. That being said though, I have been less than impressed with the stock pup stove, and ditched mine for a regular camping stove, so I may not have been that impressed with the kitchen if I had it, but the plumbed sink would be very helpful.

    StarCraft made some HWs in the 200s, I looked at a couple and thought they were some of the better made pups at the time. I think I liked the 3608 and 3612, which had hard showers in them.

    Biggest drawback I think with a HW is that most of them use an onboard black tank instead of a cassette. I would prefer the cassette myself, that was something of a deal breaker for me on many I found.
     
  14. GalsofEscape

    GalsofEscape Active Member

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    actually - it is a Flagstaff 27KS. The Rockwood version is the HW277 (and they are twin models).
    I really liked our HW277 when we had it - it had a gvwr of 3800 lbs. We found the outside kitchen very useful and it was our favorite feature - but the wind could effect the stove. The other feature we liked was we had access to the fridge with the roof down.
    The drawbacks were:
    1) The black and grey tanks are small (only 12 gals) - so not very useful. we ended up always using a waste tote for the gray and never used the toilet/black tank.
    2) no couch
    3) storage could be an issue - though we were able to use the bathroom as a closet by hanging a second wardrobe in there so that helped alot (but could not use it for the shower or toilet).
    4) awning - we had to set it up before we lifted the roof - and once it was set up, it was a bear to take down if a storm came up (i.e. we had to lower the roof to roll up the awning).
     
  15. Aladin Sane

    Aladin Sane I'd rather be camping

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    We have a starcraft Centennial highwall and love it. It has a cassette shoilet and we have an external gray water tote. We pull ours with a 1/2 ton pickup, and would not attempt to tow such a heavy pup with your tow vehicle le.
     
  16. dwschoon

    dwschoon New Member

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    Thanks for all the advice. After looking at several trailers we came home yesterday with a 2013 Flagstaff MAC 228BH. Weighs 2235 according to the sticker. I’ve got the Anderson WDH on its way.
     

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  17. Ken Lane

    Ken Lane Active Member

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    Your setup looks great. Good and level. Do you know that your SUV can handle a WDH. My Benz could not with the available hitch even though it is a 2" receiver.
     
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  18. dwschoon

    dwschoon New Member

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    My manual says I can use one. I got it installed tonight. Made a big difference as the rear suspension is pretty soft from the factory. I can get a pic tomorrow in the daylight.
     
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