How to price a water-damaged pup for sale?

Discussion in 'Camper Pre-Purchase Questions' started by MIlover, Aug 28, 2013.

  1. MIlover

    MIlover Member

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    Moderators - if there is a better forum for this question, please move accordingly. Hopefully I posted in the right place.

    Thanks to the feedback I've received from several forum members, DH and I have decided to put our 2010 Jayco 1207 up for sale in hopes a DIY'er will buy her. In turn, we hope to buy a more reliable pup.

    My question is this: How do I go about pricing a 2010 pup with water-damaged floor corners? NADA says low retail is $6,850; I don't put much stock in NADA though. If I price it at $4,000 is that still too expensive? I know it's a lot less than comparable/older/smaller pups posted on Craig's List - but they don't advertise water damage either. [V]

    It's very clean, been well maintained for the time we've had it (new sealant on corners and moulding, waxed, greased, etc.), is a popular floor plan, has brand-new tires as of this summer, and comes with everything standard on a 1207, including the indoor/outdoor gas stove, 3-way fridge, 23-gallon freshwater tank (sanitized, btw), hot-water heater that has never been used, awning/screen room, etc. That said, it does have water damage in two of the road-side corners, from where water entered. Those corners are hidden inside storage bins, but we cut up the linoleum floor to access it and help the floor dry. The wood is a bit softer in those areas. We haven't noticed any floor dampness since a year ago when we first found it and resealed. The main floor where you walk is hard.

    We live in MI. Any suggestions on how to price a newish pup in this condition?

    Many thanks.
     
  2. kmh1596

    kmh1596 Wilbraham, MA

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    First off, kudos for being honest about what you have, and for being forthcoming to the future buyer. This is a common issue not only with popups, but also with hybrids; water damage happens.

    If I were you, I'd list it for $3950, noting the NADA low retail value (I have found that to be pretty accurate, as long as you do not add value for the standard features), and note that it has two soft spots from a previous leak. Most people won't care, and the person you're aiming for is the DIY camper or the guy who knows better than to think that these small spots represent a structural issue (unless they do).

    Keep in mind, however, that there are plenty of other campers out there without (disclosure of) water damage, so you may wait a while to sell.

    Why don't you fix it and use it? Or just keep using it? Do you have pictures? I have fixed wood rot in a previous camper I had, so I could at least gauge how bad of an issue you're looking at?
     
  3. cztardust

    cztardust Active Member

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    I think the real issue is mold when it comes to water damage... I would spell out the damage when you post it up for sale. Being honest is the way to fly, but I'd be very specific. Rotted corners can be fixed, mold... Esp to many with mold allergies is a big turn off and requires extensive effort to get back under control.
    I you have no problem with mold I would list it had rotted corners and avoid the words "water damage." It's just too broad of a term.
    I'd post it up for sale starting in early spring when it might bring in a better dollar and KMH is spot on. I'd list it for $3950 and let people come out and see for themselves what it is worth to them.
     
  4. kmh1596

    kmh1596 Wilbraham, MA

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    While I agree it would sell right away in the Spring, there are people looking all year round for PUPs.. I sold our 07 Williamsburg on CL in under a week, and sold our 01 Starcraft PUP a few years ago in mid January--both at high retail value.

    I'd bet you'd be able to sell it this fall without issue--worst case, try again in the spring.
     
  5. CamL48

    CamL48 New Member

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    Let's start with your NADA valuation. Things like water heater don't add to the base value, because they were standard. From your list, I think only the fridge and awning were options. If you have a furnace, that also would be optional equipment that you add to base ... but you didn't mention having one. I'll add it, because I'm thinking a MI PUP has one.

    Here's what I come up with:
    [table]
    [tr]
    [td][/td][td]Low Retail[/td][td]Average Retail[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Base Price[/td][td]$5,580[/td][td]$6,720[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Options:[/td][td][/td][td][/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]3-Way Fridge[/td][td]$215[/td][td]$260[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Awning w/ Scrn Rm[/td][td]$310[/td][td]$375[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]16K BTU Furnace[/td][td]$200[/td][td]$240[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Total Price[/td][td]$6,305[/td][td]$7,595[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    So, I'm coming up $500 short on your valuation.

    I'd price according to Average, not Low. Low already assumes more-than-normal wear and tear. So, I'd hold out the water damage as a special deduction and price the rest of the trailer accordingly. Sounds as if it's an average to above-average trailer.

    Therefore start with the average NADA. I'll use my value above, but use whatever is real (just make sure you use NADA properly). $7,600 is what you'd want to get for the PUP without damage. So, you'd probably list it for $7,900.

    $7,900 is your starting point for listing.

    I think a $2K deduction for the water damage is fair. I bet it would cost $1-$1.5K to have that professionally repaired. Total guess on my part. And, you're eating some cash for pushing the inconvenience and burden of repair onto the next guy.

    Therefore, I'd list for $5,900 - $6,200 with the expectation that I could take as low as $5K. Any lower than that, it's better to repair the floor on your dime and sell it for $7K+.

    Good luck.
     
  6. MIlover

    MIlover Member

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    Well, you can read more about my reasons to sell in my recent post in this same forum about "To buy used, new or not at all." For more info./pics on water damage, you can view my posts from a year ago. The jest of it is that one of the soft corners is under the main winch. Replacing it, and the other corner, is beyond our available time and current skill set. Ignoring the rot indefinitely really isn't an option. We thought about paying someone to fix the floor, but the wall corners might already be compromised too, since water entered from the top of the box corners. We're just fed up with worrying about it...

    When I first pulled up the linoleum and the corners were still wet, there was some mold on wood (to be expected). However, after it dried out and we fixed the leaks (or what we could find of the leaks), the mold has gone away. We are going to be honest. It's the right thing to do, but also, it's obvious something was done in the corners because the linoleum is cut up there, and we would be asked about it anyway.

    So $3,950 sounds like the magic number? I assume if I post at that amount, a realistic selling price is $3,500? Ugh.
     
  7. kmh1596

    kmh1596 Wilbraham, MA

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    I agree with CamL48 on some aspects, however it also depends on how badly you want to sell it. If you list it and disclose any soft spots, you'll be sitting on it for a while if you put it anywhere close to even low retail, IMHO. You MAY get more for it if you wait it out, or you may miss out on some buyers at a lesser price while you hold out for more. The old saying "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" comes to mind.

    Keep in mind that you are selling it to move to a different unit without any water issues (be it past or present), so unless you'd consider it at the price you're asking, I would reconsider asking retail. This is coming from someone who has bought and sold 4 different campers on CL over the last 6 years, some bought needing work, some not.

    You have not posted pictures of the damage as yet--do you have any? How big is the damaged area?

    Also, you are preaching to the choir--I am paranoid about water damage and leaks--paranoid enough that my friends bust me about it. With campers, however, it isn't unusual to find leaks.
     
  8. MIlover

    MIlover Member

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    CamL48 - I wish! I don't think there's any way my pup would go for that price. Not in MI. I've seen newer 1207 models for sale at dealerships for around $6-7k. And, we paid $5,600 for ours last summer - without knowledge of the leaks.

    Here's the thing - we've considered just paying to have it repaired, but don't want to pay to have the floor replaced if the walls are compromised (which we suspect - at least in the corners). I'm pretty sure that paying someone to replace both the floor and walls would be cost-prohibitive compared to buying another pup. Right?
     
  9. dmaxphil

    dmaxphil New Member

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    Don't give it away. My service department routinely fixes rotten floors in RVs and the cost is not as high as you think. Just depends on how extensive the damage is.

    Also, you might do just as well to trade-in. Have the dealership look at pup and determine costs to repair.
     
  10. CamL48

    CamL48 New Member

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    Then NADA doesn't apply at all. No problem, but I'd hold to my logic. Instead of NADA, insert the market value for an undamaged PUP and work back from there. Your initial investment was so far below NADA that it was a great deal by any geographical measure ... so it may still be worth investigating having it professionally fixed in the off-season.

    If you have damaged walls and floor, it's sounding worse and your ad is getting a bit messy. I thought it was just a floor.

    Trade-in, per dmaxphil, might be the better option because it's a complex sell at this point. Being so new, it may be worth it for a dealership to invest some time/$ and refurb it back to a $6K unit (or whatever MI market is).

    Good luck.
     
  11. MIlover

    MIlover Member

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    We can't confirm wall damage, but do know the wall corners were exposed to water. Water entered the top corners of the pup wall and ran down before landing on the floor. How much of that water absorbed into the wall, or did lasting damage there, we can't be sure. We let it dry out good before sealing, and the walls still feel firm on the outside.

    We do know the floor has soft corners that need eventual replacement. But that's my sticky point with all of this - we don't want to pay big $$ to replace the floor, only to learn down the line that the walls are damaged too.

    Yes, it's complicated. I need a [CB] just thinking about all of this. BTW - where's the emoticon for wine?
     
  12. arthuruscg

    arthuruscg Active Member

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    I guess I am coming from a different way of thinking. Basically, my thinking is if that much damage is visible, what is hidden in the walls.

    If I were to be buying the popup, my max would be 1k. Only because I could part the popup out if there was more damage then what I could see.

    I think of water damage as the kiss of death. Just like seeing a bubbling paint on a Rust belt car.
     
  13. kmh1596

    kmh1596 Wilbraham, MA

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    Can you Please.Post.Pictures? [?:~{] [8D]
     
  14. MIlover

    MIlover Member

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    I posted pics to the Portal last year, shortly after the discovery of our first corner leak. Here is a link to the full set on Flickr:
    http://www.flickr.com/photos/79550271@N07/sets/72157631324217176/

    Keep in mind these are photos of the front corner. I discovered the rear corner leak (near the winch) later on. We didn't bother removing as much of the linoleum in the second leaky area, but did cut it open a bit just to confirm more of the same...
     
  15. Ted S.

    Ted S. Member

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    That is so upsetting. Nice people buying a camper to enjoy only to have to deal with problems like that. So sorry to see that.
     
  16. kmh1596

    kmh1596 Wilbraham, MA

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    You posted this thread yesterday--so I assumed you also had pictures to show the damage.

    To be honest, I see that there is damage, but I also don't think there is a huge (if any) structural issue. List it for whatever price you're comfortable with, and move on. I believe it will sell quick, especially where you have sealed the area where it was leaking, and it is no longer getting wet. My starcraft had this in the front corner of the storage trunk under the water heater, and the new buyer couldn't have cared less.. It was not leaking any longer, was not a structural issue, and I had done what I could (successfully) to stop it from getting worse.

    Good luck on your sale. Be sure to look closely at whatever camper(s) you consider buying, as this is not uncommon.
     
  17. MIlover

    MIlover Member

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    I took pictures when we first discovered the damage last year. By the time we found more of the same in the other corner, I didn't even bother. Our camping was done for the season, so we sealed the water sources we could identify, and I put it out of my mind for a while. This summer, we chose to ignore the problems so we could enjoy camping. Now, we want to make a decision: Pay someone for repairs, or sell it. We would like to sell it if possible.

    When I first posted these pics last year, I was told the OSB in that corner was "punky and delaminated." I tend to agree.

    Thank you to all for commenting, viewing and posting feedback. I appreciate your collective experience! I guess we'll see what happens.
     
  18. kmh1596

    kmh1596 Wilbraham, MA

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    I agree, but being that they are both in the corners, you are not walking on it, nor putting much weight on it. List it for sale, and move on. Coming from someone who also stresses over wood damage and rot, I know you'll feel a lot better when its gone!
     
  19. ill.plainsman

    ill.plainsman happy, happy

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    Milover, I would suggest you not worry about the walls at all. the reason your floor is so bad is cause water sat on it. vertical surfaces can take 10 to 20 times as much water as horizontal spaces. I have replaced a lot of water damaged walls in homes and the bottom plates and OSB floorings are gone and yet the walls are still intake. I would nock a 1000 off and not worry about it. if you brushed it down with a bleach solution and fixed the leaks and dried it out you have done everything you or a dealer would probably do. don't make more work unless you just like to give money away cause you have to much. :)
     
  20. sallymac

    sallymac New Member

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    I don't much about anything, but I would at least see what a dealer would give you in trade-in value as opposed to selling it. Much less hassle if you can live with their offer.
     

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