INSTALLING AN INVERTER FOR USE WITH NEBULIZER; HELP??

Discussion in 'Camping for the Medically/Physically Challenged' started by woodsman1st, Jul 4, 2014.

  1. woodsman1st

    woodsman1st An outdoorsman of 78 years no exp w/ pop up trlrs

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    I have installed an Inverter with these specs;
    1200 WATT CONTINUOUS
    2400 WATT PEAK

    ALSO INSTALLED

    12VOLT MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERY
    109 AMP HOURS @1AMP
    750 MARINE CRANKING AMPS.

    I may need to use a Nebulizer; if I need to use one, I am going to need to use it NOW!
    I know very little about any of what I am trying to do right now; it must be done if I'm going to go camping; so I need your help to make sure it gets hooked up correctly.
    I believe that I have it installed properly; with that belief and 50 cents you can get a cup of coffee; because I know so little of what Im doing.
    The things i dont know have more to do with how to figure out how long I can run this Nebulizer; or converting watts into amps or the other way around; that's all greek to me/
    can you tell me how long this will run at a time; how many times on a 4 day camping trip could i depend upon it to run; that type of thing. I'm not going to hook up a ground to a positive or do dummy stuff; that i'm ok with, but if YOUR IN DOUBT OVER MY ABILITY; ASK ME! You wont offend me; rather be offended that electrocuted or have my Nebulzer fail me.
    So what can you tell me based on the above.
    Im going to run a seperate thread on the actual operation of my Inverter just to keep things simplified. Please look for that if your familiar with Inverters.

    Ken
     
  2. Unstable_Tripod

    Unstable_Tripod Well, there's your problem!

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    Inverters are inefficient because they draw more power from the battery than they supply to the appliance. You might want to check on whether or not you can find a 12-volt nebulizer and run it directly off your battery. My wife uses a CPAP that runs on 12-volts for camping. In fact, some CPAPs that appear to be AC are actually 12-volt but have a converter built into the cord that that changes AC from the house wall socket to DC. They can be run on DC with a different cord. Perhaps your nebulizer is like that or you could find one that is?
     
  3. speckhunter80

    speckhunter80 Well-Known Member

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    Ken, I answered this question for you once before on PUX using a group 24 battery as an example. Since you still have not given me the group size of your battery I can not answer anymore specific then I did. Also, others questioned that you gave the correct specification of your nebulizer only using 80W on 120VAC. I gave you the answer of how many amps you can expect your nebulizer and inverter to use. You have now thrown some sort of overhead fluorescent light into the equation which you don't know if it runs on 120VAC and as such must be run thru the inverter or 12VDC wired direct. Also is this still the 30 plus year old inverter you talked about on PUX or have you bought a new one.
     
  4. Customer

    Customer Well-Known Member

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    Same here, posted on the other forum and got no further info. Must not have liked the answers.
     
  5. woodsman1st

    woodsman1st An outdoorsman of 78 years no exp w/ pop up trlrs

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    I have posted the info on my battery twice; I don't know how you missed it;
    I also gave the numbers right off my Nebulizer and as you said, "others questioned it". What am I supposed to dd? Both topics were addressed by me and then questioned; all I can do is to post what is on my battery and what is on my Inverter, and what is on the Nebulizer; all were questioned or not seen, or ignored.
    Then one person answered me saying I would need a wire the size of my "index finger" and that the inverter was too powerfull; even tho I listed other electrical appliences in the same watts or amps i forget which, and then that was questioned. It felt like i was on trial, and no I did not get the answers I wanted; however, "needed" is a much better word than "wanted". Most who posted were trying to help me and tht is greatly appreciated. But the answers in many cases were unintelligibe to me; I said I know nothing about the topic on hand, but the answers were many times too technical.
    so i came here and tried to write it in a simpler way hoping for simpler answers; and hoping tht when i posted an answer with the figures taken right off the battery, Inverter, or Nebulizer that those figures would be taken as what is written and not be challanged.
    I didnt "throw in" anything, that light fixture has been mentioned many times; someone with knowledge should have not been confused with that question.
    And NO this is NOT the 30 year old Inverter and it never was about the 30 year old inverter,
    IT WAS ABOUT THE INSTALLATION OF MY NEW INVERTER which is much more powerful, thus the reason for my buying it; and then wanting to insure that i was attaching my Nebulizer properly.
    You seem to have missed quite a bit of the information that was posted by me, that may have a great deall to do with why your answers don't make sense to me.
    Asking me at the end of your post "...is this still the 30 year old Inverter..." is a perfect example. I repeat: IT NEVER WAS ABOUT THE 30 YEAR OLD INVERTER..

    And Customer, your right I didnt like (SOME OF) the answers; most I did like. But those that I liked knew all that I had posted while others like yours and speck missed a great many of the facts, yet you still tried to answer me.
    And even now, instead of posting here to assist me, your attacking me once again. The reason why I came here and posted it once again.
    On July 4, 2014 I posted for the umpteenth time all the facts, figures and numbers from the Battery, Inverter, and Nebulizer.... HOW CAN YOU MISS THIS and then come here questioning me in the way that you did?

    Now you guys have gone and gotten me all ticked of with your attack. Speck you have given me several good answers prior to this; but on this one your out of line.
    Customer; I don't recall ever seeing a comment from you.

    Hopefully someone here will now answer my questions that I need answers to and they havent been driven away by your posts to me and my reply.
    Ken
     
  6. woodsman1st

    woodsman1st An outdoorsman of 78 years no exp w/ pop up trlrs

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    My apologies for losing my temper in my last post; no excuses.
    To Unstable Tripod a seperate apology, I dont even know why I picked that one quote out; it was unfair; I have removed it and I apologise.
    Ken
     
  7. speckhunter80

    speckhunter80 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Ken that you think I was attacking you or that you think I have in the past. Yes, you have posted some battery info but not the numbers we normally use when discussing amp storage of a deep cycle battery. Glad you found some answers helpful and sorry you didn't find them all to be helpful. It is difficult to provide answers when the person you are answering has little or no baseline knowledge of the subject being discussed. I have tried to provide answers to you in as little tech speak as possible. Apparently, I have done a poor job of it. As such I will just back out and let others answer.
     
  8. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    Is there any place you have posted all the info in one place?

    Additional besides this:
    1200 WATT CONTINUOUS
    2400 WATT PEAK

    ALSO INSTALLED

    12VOLT MARINE DEEP CYCLE BATTERY
    109 AMP HOURS @1AMP
    750 MARINE CRANKING AMPS.

    Do you have info about the negulizer, can you provide the efficiency of the inverter or a link to the inverter so its specs can be determined? I can guess if ya like! Do you intend to turn the inverter off when not in use or leave it on all the time (its idle current draw will be in the specs). Wire size/length may also be part of the specs.

    Are you opposed to hooking it up to your vehicle engine while running? Are you opposed to get an inverter that plugs into a cig lighter in your vehicle? These methods would be limited by how much gasoline your vehicle uses and not a battery, idle the vehicle while using the nebulizer.

    Keep piecemealing info and I think garbage in yields crap.

    For grins!!! IF the inverter uses 1A DC while on and you leave it on for 50 hrs, you've used up 1/2 battery. If you want your battery to last a long time, keep discharges to 1/2 of the batter capacity and keep it charged when not in use.

    So 50 hrs is ~2 days you can leave the inverter on and not use it one bit!!
     
  9. woodsman1st

    woodsman1st An outdoorsman of 78 years no exp w/ pop up trlrs

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    Speckhunte;
    I have already apologized once for losing my temper; and I do so once again.
    It was not just you, it seemed like the bulk of comments took that turn; and I have little doubts that my own lack of knowledge on this topic caused me to become defensive unnecessarily so. Mostly it was comments that did not seem to have read all the info that I had supplied; so the replies to me were incorrect. And todays comments "posted on the other forum...must not have liked the answers" is my idea of attacking me; perhaps I am overly sensitive.
    In any case I credited you with giving me valuable informative answers in the past; and I stand by that. I didnt ask you to leave i value your input. I left the other Forum temporarily to try to word my questions in a different manner and get away from the trend that one seemed to be taking. I did so without a comment; with full plans of returning, then it seemed like I was condemned for doing so..."must not have liked the answers" was uncalled for. I just wanted a fresh viewpoint to help me understand. Leave if you wish; i would prefer you remain and share your knowledge.

    bupkis;
    Yes but it;s scattered between here and the other forum; so lets just add this to what you posted.

    NEBULIZER:
    PAR VIOS
    WALGREENS
    Model no. 310B0003
    Sserial No. AD14B02345
    120Volt 60Hz
    1.5 A 80W
    I added make model and WalGreens to the other info. That is all taken directly from the back of the Nebulizer. This was also challanged in the other forum and I have no idea why; nor did I even understand the challange. But I believe one of the comments were that I would need a wire the size of my index finger to run this.
    Unless told to do otherwise I intend to keep the inverter off at all times.
    Idle current draw I dont have any other specs than what i gave but I did supply the info needed to look everything up; at least I think that will get you the info.
    I am not "opposed" to anything really, I don't know enuff to take a stand one way or the other.
    I installed it in the Pup because thats where it will always be needed. I dont believe they work well on a ciggarette lighter for some reason.
    I could conceivably be towed by another member of the families vehicle; so everything is stored in the Pup that I will ever need; no plans to remove anything even fishing rods; because then something would surely be forgotten. Everything, including most prospecting stuff is loaded into pup for this reason; it's set up for "GRAB AN GO NO NEED TO THINK, EVERYTHINGS IN PUP EXCEPT FOOD".

    "50 hours is 2 days" I can leave the Inverter on without using it" is that factual and not just an example of some kind?
    If so that is the exact kind of info I need. Can you tell me with an average usage of 15 minutes each time, how many times i can use it? 15 minutes is more than i can use it each time, but that gives me a 4 minute safety net so to speak
    For me and my 79 year old mind and memory, it is much better to have info like that, than to tell me all the whys and wherefores there are in the world.
    Rather than formulas and understanding how to convert watts to amps or whatever, give me simple Facts.
    FACTS:
    You can use you inverter for 20 seconds and then your leg breaks.
    You should not use any "resistive load" because of the greater drain.
    You can/cannot recharge your cell phone>
    You can recharge it 4 times....50 times...whatever, I don't know and need to know.
    Those are the types of things i need to know. As I said a couple of times in the past "Keep it Dick and Jane simple"..
    At my age and with all the pain pills I must take; please don't confuse me with facts and figures; just say "Do this; Dont do this" along those lines and I will be forever greatfull.
    Thanks for your interest.
    Ken
     
  10. teejaywhy

    teejaywhy Active Member

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    Something doesn't add up with those specs - possibly just copied the data wrong?
    1.5A @ 120V is 180W
    80W @120V is 0.67A

    Ken:

    How long do you need to run the nebulizer for?
     
  11. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

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    I regret you have not given brand/make/model of the inverter, is it secret?

    Is this the nebulizer
    http://www.pari.com/fileadmin/user_upload/PARI.com_Amerika/Instructions/310D0029_Vios_LC_Sprint_IFU_EN_ES.pdf

    As I mentioned before, test it with the inverter to make sure the compressor works appropiately, I have an inverter and when I use a cheap box fan, the fan runs slower than if I use utility power.

    So let's use 1.5A AC, let's assume an 85% inverter efficiency (missing data on your part). So if the inverter output is 120v 1.5A the input requirement would be 15A 12v, apply 85% eff and that's 15A/.85 = ~18A

    18A use for one hour is 18 amp hr. That suggest your 100 amp hr battery IF good can operate it for about 4 hrs and your battery would be dead and damaged.

    Use it for up to 2 hrs and keep the inverter OFF when not in use.

    If you only need it for a few minutes then you can use the battery for the overhead light also.

    Battery maintaince between use is critical to maintain a good battery.
    http://www.trojanbattery.com/tech-support/battery-maintenance/

    I believe this neb would work well with a 100 watt cig lighter plug in inverter.
     
  12. speckhunter80

    speckhunter80 Well-Known Member

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    Copied and pasted from PUX: Based upon the info you have provided your nebulizer uses 80W on 120V or 6.7 amps on 12V so with the inefficiency and power use of the inverter you will use roughly 8-9 amps an hour. You can divide that up by (6) 10 minute periods, so you are going to use 1.5 amps from your battery each time you use your nebulizer. Since I am not going to go thru your various posts to figure out your battery size and amp storage I will assume an 80 amp battery. Using that number and assuming no other draw you will be able to use your nebulizer 26 times.
     
  13. WeRJuliIan

    WeRJuliIan If it's "Aluminum", why not "Sodum" and "Uranum"?

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    Be careful... Some bad science being bandied about, here...

    You're doing the calculation based on a steady-state, DC system - such as the regular 12V supply for most of the pup electricals. The world of AC - which is where your nebuliser lives - doesn't work like that.

    Power and current calculations, used in the ratings for AC appliances, have to take into account something called the "power factor" of the appliance, which is usually constant for a given supply frequency - 60 Hz, in this case.. Rearranging the standard math, that looks like a PF of about 0.48

    You also use the RMS voltage, not the peak.. assuming your inverter is a good one, and putting out a perfectly smooth sinusoidal supply.

    So, plugging those numbers into the standard equation:

    I=P/(PF*VRMS)

    I get

    I=80/(0.48*110) = 1.5A-ish

    So, the numbers are right.


    (Hey, it's been years since I did that stuff, and I didn't have to break a sweat or open an old text book, so I'm impressed, even if nobody else is! :) )
     
  14. Customer

    Customer Well-Known Member

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    No one has attacked you here or on PUX, but when asked for specific information you aren't giving it. Here are just a few examples.
    Inverter brand and model?
    wire size?
    fuse size?
    battery brand and model?

    We realize you are clueless in these matters. If we were standing beside you looking at the equipment it would be easy. However we are not beside you, we are hundreds or even thousands of miles away and only know what you post.

    On other posts you have told us about all the RVs you have owned and used for many years but it is odd that you obviously don't know anything about the operation of RV systems.

    People are willing to help but it is impossible without the specific requested information. Those people that are trying to help get frustrated when you ignore requests for specific info.
     

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