Is this really the new trend???

Discussion in 'Tow Vehicles, Hitch & Towing' started by steved, Aug 22, 2013.

  1. steved

    steved New Member

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    On our recent trip to Maine, I noticed a LOT of 1500 pickups towing 5vrs.

    Now, that in itself isn't a big deal, I own a 5vr that's designed for a 1500 pickup (450 pin/3500 weight). But these were big dudes...one example was a 1500 GMC (standard cab, short box) towing a triple axle toy hauler (six lug wheels, probably 18k rated GVW). Some of the 5vrs being towed by 1500s, I wouldn't hook to with my 2500HD because it would be well outside my rated GVW.

    I passed more 5vrs being towed by 1500s on this trip than we saw PUPs! It seemed like for every five 5vrs being towed by a 1500, I might see one being tugged along with a 2500/3500. Anyone else notice this trend?

    I guess it bothers me knowing the mechanic of some of these trucks, like the difference between a semi-floating and full floating rear differential capacity.
     
  2. Dubbya

    Dubbya Wherever you go, there you are...

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    That's one of the problems with not requiring RV's or campers to pull through weigh scales.... nobody's tasked with educating the masses to tell them they can't legally or safely do what they're doing.

    Then again, the folks doing it might simply not care...
     
  3. TX_F2

    TX_F2 New Member

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    I have noticed more 1/2 tons towing what seem to be large 5th wheels that I always thought were the realm of 3/4 and 1 tons only. However, there are more and more 5'ers made for 1/2 tons, here is just one example of many:

    [​IMG]

    Flagstaff 8528RKWS

    It's 31 ft long with two slides, has a dry pin weight of 1,046 lbs (yes, I know that is the dry weight), UVW of 7130 lbs (add a few hundred for AC, awning, and any other dealer installed items), and a GVWR of 8,950 lbs.

    http://www.forestriverinc.com/FifthWheels/ClassicSuperLite/default.aspx?model=classic&page=floorplandetails&floorplanid=3014&RVType=fifthwheels


    Now that is a 31 ft Fiver well within the manufacturers limits of many 1/2 ton pick ups. There are some other RV brands that also market 1/2 ton towable 5th wheels. This is why I believe you see more and more 150's and 1500's towing them.

    Are there going to be some folks who are overloaded ? Oh yeah, just as there are right here on the Portal.

    One thing to remember also is that from the outside two of the same model 1/2 ton's will look the same, but one may be configured with a towing capacity of say 6,500 lbs and the other 10,000+ lbs.
     
  4. steved

    steved New Member

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    I was at my dealer trying to straighten out my registration paperwork the other day, and he told me this interesting tidbit. I guess Pennsylvania (maybe a Federal thing) now requires owners of the bigger RVs to have the appropriate license? Sort of like a truck driver is required to have a Class A for anything over 26k towing over 10k, plus air brake endorsements, etc. Looks like the RV owners are going to have to do something similar? And its about time. These bigger RVs are no different than some of the Class B trucks, some of the bigger 5vr/TV combinations meet the Class A requirements.

    I think a lot of the mismatched TV/RV combinations comes from the dealers telling an uninformed buyer "its alright" and the buyer not being better informed. I've been waiting for the lawsuit...currently, if a shipper knowingly/unknowingly overloads a commercial truck and sends it down the road, and said truck is involved in an accident; they can not only go after the driver but the shipper as well. Wait until the RV owner gets into an accident and the RV dealer is named in a lawsuit!

    Not to mention the overinflated tow ratings the manufacturers are putting on the TVs to "keep up" in the towing wars. Back in mid 2000s, it was the diesel HP/TQ wars, now its a towing/hauling capacity war...mines bigger than yours.
     
  5. steved

    steved New Member

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    And I go back to my original statement...knowing what I know about a semi-floating rear axle versus a full floating rear axle. [:D]

    Do you know how many "1500s" I saw with broken axles on this trip alone? No less than three (one was an Expedition hooked to a larger PUP). Ever see what happens when a 1500 axle breaks? They lose the wheel, hub, and brake drum...now imagine the results of that 1,000# of pin weight and large trailer, on the back of a TV that just lost its rear wheel. At least if you break an axle on a 2500HD/3500, they retain the wheel and brakes!

    Again, I think a lot of the TV ratings are over inflated...a lot of the 1500s are pushing the maximum trailer weights of the 2500s from a few years back. And here is an example...my 2500HD with a 6.0L/3.73s has a rating of 9,600#s, a 1500 of the same year has a tow rating of a little more than 10k pounds, with less engine and gearing!! What?

    And this is all for the sake of discussion...a lot of us on these forums know this, I'm just bringing it up!
     
  6. Wizfisher

    Wizfisher New Member

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    What I find amazing is the payload capacities of the newer 1/2 ton trucks.
    Some of them allow up to 2800+ pounds of payload with some packages.
     
  7. Detroit_Iron

    Detroit_Iron Active Member

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    I can remember my very first camper which was the first thing I ever towed. I had an early 80's 2wd dodge ram 318cid with 300,xxx miles on it. Friend was selling his old camper cheap so I went over and bought it. Popped out the plug for the bumper hitch, screwed in a 2in ball, climbed under the truck and found a 4 pin hanging, plugged it in and away I went (notice no mention of safety chains). First time taking it out hitched it up the same way. Loaded the bed with a if it fits it ships attitude and then tossed 2 bikes on the roof of the pup and ratchet strapped them down....

    I have no idea if what the payload/towing capacity of the truck was or how much weight the pup axles where rated for ......

    Its crazy to think back at how dangerously unsafe I was.. back then didnt know any better, I don't even think the internet was around...
     
  8. steved

    steved New Member

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    The capacity of any of them is incredible. No longer can you say a 1500 is a 1/2-ton, a 2500 is a 3/4-ton, or that a 3500 is a one-ton.

    My truck is something like 3400 pounds?
     
  9. steved

    steved New Member

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    I think a lot of us were right there with you...trailer brakes? Trailer have brakes?
     
  10. FarmerDave

    FarmerDave Active Member

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    Yes, I see that here a lot too....big 5ers on half tons. I think of overtaxed axles, suspension, transmission and engine.

    The newest 1/2 tons are rated close to what older 3/4 tons were. Now "rated" and "appropriate" are two different things, but C clip rear axles and rear bumper sagging under load do not instill towing confidence to myself (yes I've seen diesel 3/4 dragging bumper towing too large of 5er as well.)

    Bottom line, if a 1/2 ton was "heavy duty" then the 3/4 ton pickup would be obsolete....but it is not....

    Me personnally, if I was looking to regularly tow 10,000 lb, I would not be looking at 150 or 1500...
     
  11. Twisty

    Twisty New Member

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    Ignorance and arrogance play parts in it.
    Some people are so very deeply concerned about solo MPG that they will run the TV at max loads rather than buy the proper TV for hauling.
    The TT we are going to buy has a 970 pound DRY tongue weight.
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I've been doing numbers.[/font]
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]A 10,000 lb GVW F250 will run out of payload for our new TT fully loaded for living full time.[/font]
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]I am buying a 10,600 lb GVW F350 as it will give me that 600 pound cushion of payload. I will be well under every number everywhere.[/font]
    [font=verdana, arial, helvetica, sans-serif]Now ask - How many people are willing to buy and use as a daily driver an F350?[/font]
     
  12. generok

    generok Well-Known Member

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    Poppa wants an RV. Momma says okay, but it has to have all the bells and whistles and lots of room. Poppa says COOL! But, there's no way in hell momma is springing for a new truck too. Poppa pulls with what he has, smiling all the way to the CG.

    ATV has sticker on it saying "Highway use can lead to death". Move to Germany, same ATV with street tires passes us at 90 mph doing just fine.

    Who writes the towing numbers and ATV stickers, engineers or lawyers?

    Out.
     
  13. kpic

    kpic New Member

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    IMO, lawyers in the United States of Litigation.

    My Volvo XC-70 is rated at 3300#, in Europe where the rating is a legal rating it is rated at 1800 kg or 3968# and you do not have to subtract any of the vehicle's load from the rating. Amazing what one can learn using the web. [;)]
     
  14. camp dad

    camp dad New Member

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    I did, I did! Well not really I use it in my business, but I do drive it everyday. I agree with the masses on this topic. I wouldn't move some of the campers across the yard with the TV that I see going down the road.
     
  15. steved

    steved New Member

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    I daily drive my 2500HD currently, 100 miles a day...if the price of gas was better, I wouldn't even buy a commuter. I have only owned "3/4 ton" trucks since the early 90s...can't see the use for a 1/2 ton, I use my 3/4-ton pretty much weekly between firewood, home improvements, etc..

    There is about a cord of green firewood on that trailer...this is my current TV.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. steved

    steved New Member

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    In the case of my coworker, the wife was driving the purchase...his wife is starting to look at the big 5vrs, and he's already nervous to take his current camper more than a few miles down the road...I'm waiting for that call.

    But I know what you're saying. I learned right off not to pull onto an RV dealer lot with your TV. They will sell you the biggest thing you can tug down the road, safe or not. I took our Forester RV shopping, and you would be surprised how many times they gave us pricing for the PUP and hitch for our FXT, even though I would never use it to tow, well, anything. Its all about that commission...
     
  17. Dubbya

    Dubbya Wherever you go, there you are...

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    Hmmm.... all hooked up, loaded with firewood and ready to roll. I'll bet it's all fueled up too... Wait, is that a tilt deck? Nice...

    SteveD, don't be too surprised or upset if that rig of yours goes missing. I'm sure whoever steals it will appreciate it every bit as much as you do. [;)]
     
  18. steved

    steved New Member

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    Not a tilt deck, just a big flatbed.

    I hope nobody steals it, I just got it to where I like it!
     
  19. Dubbya

    Dubbya Wherever you go, there you are...

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    Well, if it's not a tilt deck, you won't find it at my house! [LOL] Seriously though, that's a great set up!
     

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