Just here to confirm what I suspect, but...

[WunFiddy]

The camper you want might not exist, campers made in the US tend cater to what most US buyers want, a cheap price. (y'know capitalism, giving the consumer what they want).

If cost isn't an issue import a camper from Australia or buy one from people who are starting to import them (y'know capitalism, seeing a opportunity and investing in that opportunity) check out http://conqueror4x4usa.com/ or maybe a Cricket or Mantis camper from Taxa (US manufacturer).

My camper is a LivinLite 21BHS (pre-thor) I paid double what a cheap OSB camper would cost but never having to worry about a water leak making the floor soft is worth it.

As for capitalism, my comment was more meant along the lines of capitalism always travels towards monopolies, and the Thor/Forest River pair has a Duopoly, running something like 80% of the market in campers in North America.
Now, I'm not saying that I wouldn't accept a giant sack full of dollars from a competitor if the number was right,

 

[jnc]

$35k make me wish I was still building them!

 

[SHFL]

Hi Wunfiddy,
I know this is an older post, but my DH and I were considering what our next camper will be (5 years from now — or sooner if we find it), and we were thinking of something that did not involve as much setup. We don’t wast to pay storage fees, and building a second garage would break the budget, so it would have to fit into our existing garage.

We considered A-frames, but we’d like an easier awning.
We like the TrailManor, but we realized that we cannot get into it, ANYWHERE, without popping it up.
We thought about modifying a cargo trailer to have a pop-top — but we’d like to stay married...

THEN we saw this — the R-vision Bantam 18gm (Garage Model)
Pictures - https://www.affinityrv.com/rv/+/traillite+traveltrailer/4928/trail+lite+bantam+18gm
Specs -
http://giantrv.addr.com/products/trail_lite/bantam/bantam_garage02.htm

These aren’t being manufactured anymore (as far as I can tell), and I have heard that the early R-vision hybrids had leaks.

MAYBE we get together to request that an aluminum frame manufacuter (Livin’ Lite or TrailManor) to do a limited pre-order production run of a reincarnation of this camper. We could specify he standard and optional features (I don’t need a built in DVD player ad 6 speakers...). We would have to agree on a price and a deposit before they manufacture it, then sign a contract.

What do you think?

I would love to have a camper that could be turtled, expands for more room, has a bathroom, requires minimal setup, AND fits in my garage.

Everybody else, What do you think? Would you be interested? If there is enough interest, we can start a new thread...

 

[Dan from Troup]

All campers are vulnerable to water intrusion if not properly maintained. It doesn't matter if it's a half a mil MH, 5th wheel, TT or PUP. I've got a client with a super deluxe 2000 5th wheel that had some water intrusion that got away from him. Now he has some major delamination issues between the foam and fiberglass. Cost to repair is prohibitive as he'll have to sell it to someone looking to setup at a hunting lease and build a roof over it. Don't think for a second that fiberglass campers are immune to water issues. This has nothing to do with the design of a PUP or any other camper. They're all subject to failure if not properly maintained. If you like the size of a PUP, don't discount them as they're just as good a camper as any other.

 

[SHFL]

Hi Dan,
I believe the leaks had to do with the design of the flip-out bunk end seals or a bad bunk latching mechanism...
Since then, bunk latches and seals have improved.

 

[Orchid]

@WunFiddy , not sure what your abilities or free time are, but you could always build your own trailer. People do it all the time. There are lots of plans over at this forum.

 

[Toedtoes]

I spent a lot of time looking at small trailers. The Escape was the one that came closest. It helped that the owner appears to be willing to work with you on build and so you have some room for customization. Might be worth an email to see if they can better meet your requirements.

In the end, I got really lucky and found my Fold n Roll. They are very rare. But it ended up being perfect for me. So definitely look at vintage trailers and you may find just what you want.

 

[Orchid]

In the end, I got really lucky and found my Fold n Roll. They are very rare. But it ended up being perfect for me. So definitely look at vintage trailers and you may find just what you want.

Just went and Googled this camper. Very cool! I love it!

 

[gatorbait]

From what I can see, pretty well nobody builds a wood free roof, or a general structure that isn't going to be completely compromised by some raw OSB getting wet. But I could be wrong.

Is there currently any well designed, fairly well built, with appropriate materials, pop up campers out there??

I have not had a bit of problem out of my 16yr old alumitite roof. I carry bikes, kayaks and an AC on it. I believe a lot of how a pup ages, or anything for that matter, is in how its stored and maintained. Sitting outside in the elements is going to cause a lot of early problems because yes they are not built to last. I keep mine under a lean to that we built attached to a storage outbuilding. I was surprised to see the outside tire dry rotting. No direct light but enough exposure to weather it more than the other side. Of course you can't expect a used camper to always be garage kept.
Also I don't believe for a minute that the claims of 20 25 yrs expectancy on sealants is true. Maybe in a lab!

 

[Toedtoes]

Just went and Googled this camper. Very cool! I love it!

Thanks. The only negative I could say about it is that you have to the roof to open the door. But since it has a hydraulic lift that takes about 20 seconds, it's not a big deal. The walls push up in about 10 seconds.

 

[adrianpglover]

This looks like one the Australian division of Haycock makes called an Expanda. Of course their version is more rugged and made for overland journeys, but it's still in production as far as I know. Might be easier to import, but last I looked it could be a bit expensive.

I agree though, I like the idea of this type of camper, especially if they use an AC made for a tear drop and not the roof mounted variety.

 

[SHFL]

Thanks for the info adriangllover!

 

[adrianpglover]

Sorry. Slow connection and got a double post.

 

[adrianpglover]

I just realized that my phone had autocorrected and changed the brand name. What I meant to say was "...the Australian division of Jayco...".

I do like the idea of a 3/4 height popup. You could also call it a super high wall popup. Something that could be designed with cabinets that come up to about your shoulders when closed up, not really high off the ground but not so low that you can't make it out of most driveways. I wouldn't mind something that I could get into and hunch over a bit but could load up completely with it still in the garage, then go out to the campsite and setup without needing to bring things inside from the TV, just to do the opposite again when packing up. This would make it easier to take on a multi-day drive to a distant location. It would also be nice to find something that had a Dexter Airflex or similar type axle, where you combine air suspension and rubber torsion. With that type of setup you could potentially adjust your ride height to be lower to the ground by a few inches to get into the garage, raise it up a little to get in and out of campsites, and maybe even lower it a little bit when towing to slightly reduce your frontal wind profile to improve gas mileage. Basically a super high wall popup with a low rider kit installed. Also similar to the way that city buses these days have the "kneeling" feature on them.

 

[SHFL]

Thanks. I didn’t know about those axles — that is great! My DH and I are seriously considering how we can have a camper like this built.

 

[SHFL]

We understand the phone autocorrection...

We were able to find the campers anyway. They are much more “refined” (and expensive) than what we were looking for, and a bit taller, but they are the same concept. The first thing we noticed was that the door was on the wrong side!

We also found out that the Australian Jayco is not affiliated with the American Jayco (now Thor) so our hopes of potential design sharing were dashed.

 

[adrianpglover]

How large of a camper are you looking for? Would a popup truck bed camper on a utility trailer work out alright for you? You also could potentially find a company who makes popup truck bed campers that might be willing to work with you on a custom design.

 

[silvermickey2002]

As for construction, as long as you keep up on the maintenance it will last a long time. We have a 2008 Fleetwood Sea Pine (Destiny series). Is is garage kept and I always make sure it is washed before it goes into the garage. I have seen other folks with our same exact camper and they look their age due to the fact they are stored outside unprotected. One owner even came over to me and asked if it was the same camper as his and was like yup! He was shocked when he saw them side by side and he realized how bad his looked. But, I also make sure to keep up with all routine maintenance and what ever needs to be fixed.

 

[WunFiddy]

I appreciate the effort here, folks.

As far as "keeping up on the maintenance" Yeah, we get that. However, as far as designs and materials go, you can really reduce maintenance by what you choose to build the camper and how you choose to design it. For example, I wont buy something with an EPDM or TPO roof. Period. Ever. One sharp stick in a windstorm, and later you drive home in the rain and some water gets into the fiberglass batt filled wood framed roof, and you are sunk.
And being honest here, who goes over their camper with a magnifying glass more than once a year? I don't know where geographically everyone is from here, and North America has some pretty varied climates, with a range of seasonal time. Our spring/summer/fall here is short compared to southern USA. We have may-october at best for camper season, and it sometimes is snowing in May, though not recently, and usually well below freezing in October. Between my Wifes career and my company, we are pretty well left with July-October for camping. We would be willing to spend the money on something built better that doesnt need to be gone over with a fine tooth comb multiple times a year, so we can spend time camping, and not rebuilding the camper.
In the case of our particular **** box, just bouncing down the road has screws ripping out of the thin wood framing members on the back bed slide rails. (bed slider screws into a 1x1 wood piece and into the thin wood framing of the exterior wall on the door side) Currently working on how to reinforce that without tearing apart the entire wall.
And the first thing I did with this one, is go over all the raw OSB edges in the roof with caulking, and then painted the sides. Then I pulled the corner roof trim pieces off the following spring when i noticed the caulking pulled back on two, and blow dried the damp OSB, then packed the gaps with putty and put the trim back on and recaulked again.
As far as storage, its expensive, but we are looking at indoor storage going forward. Its minus 35 celcius without the windchill here in winter, and this summer had multiple days of 35 celcius. thats a 70 degree range. No caulk/sealant applied at in a bead on a seam at one extreme can routinely deal with the extremes of expansion contraction and temperature.

Ive also wondered why we don't see any Australian designed stuff here. They have a wide range of hard floor or forward fold campers with suspensions that have shocks! Shocks! Built with metal instead of particle board, truck tires, etc. Ive recently been looking for Aussie models being sold in Western Canada/USA.

Id look at a Sommerset, but closest dealer is 8 hours and a different country away. I understand they have their problems, but the roof looks like a good idea, and so do the lift supports that go to the frame rather than an OSB floor.

I also do not have good fab skills. I could wire a trailer probably. I am sure my father in law and I could build something out of wood (as in I do what he says to do), but i do not know how to weld steel, and far less so aluminum. Id like a camper built with aluminium, but at this stage would even accept a trailer built with a solid, well built and coated frame and structure. I tow with an F150 with a tow rating of 5000#, and the next truck will have on paper at least a higher tow rating yet. I am not concerned with keeping weight below 3500#. If i have to sacrifice weight to get a better built product, so be it.
We also don't need or want TVs, Microwaves, slides, etc in a trailer.

People bring up that PUPS aren't built any worse than expensive TT, 5ers, or RVs. This is true, but we are also not interested in mainstream built vehicles as listed. The price of those are higher because the manufacturers put quartz and granite counter tops, microwaves, multiple TVs, fireplaces, massaging chairs etc, all sorts of expensive trim and gadgetry in them to drive up price and margins. They don't build them better, and I know.

The Livin Lites (other than being discontinued now, thanks Thor) in Quicksilver models had a lot of good ideas and materials, but the set up and take down in the rain would be a problem, as you have to slide bed ends out and THEN pull your bimini bar roof out and secure it. Hell if they didnt discontinue the 13 RDB travel trailer years back, and it wasn't impossible to find a used one within 1000km of me, we would probably get one/have got one.

 

[WunFiddy]

How large of a camper are you looking for? Would a popup truck bed camper on a utility trailer work out alright for you? You also could potentially find a company who makes popup truck bed campers that might be willing to work with you on a custom design.

My wife and I have surprisingly agreed on a trailer similar in size to ours if it is a pop up (10' with a front storage box) and 14-16' travel trailer?hybrid if it has a rear tip out bed.
An awning of 9-10' is also critical. Few camping trips have gone by where four of us don't have to cram chairs under the 9" awning we have currently because its raining.

 

[WunFiddy]

@WunFiddy , not sure what your abilities or free time are, but you could always build your own trailer. People do it all the time. There are lots of plans over at this forum.

There are actually probably dozens of well built tear drops available across the USA and Canada. Unfortunately neither my Wife or I are interested in a tear drop. Good concept, lots of pros vs a tent. Not for us. I had tried to convince my Wife on an Off Grids pop up roof camper, but no dice. That model never made production either if i recall, just a CAD drawing before the owner of Off Grid Trailers sold his business to investors. They were built right in Alberta.