Lift Stopped Turning - 2007 Fleetwood Niagara

[BlueFrog23]

Electric & Manual Lift Stopped Turning - 2007 Fleetwood Niagara Popup

I purchased a used 2007 Fleetwood Niagara Popup camper two years ago and have enjoyed using it about 10 times in the central and eastern united states since purchasing it. It is currently parked at our home in Mississippi. I was trying to open it to do some maintenance to get ready for an upcoming trip, but the electric motor for the lift wouldn't turn. The voltage on the battery seemed just a little low (12.4 Volts at the battery, but 11.4 Volts at the lift controller), so I grabbed the hand crank and it didn't want to turn with that either. I applied a bit more force and the hand crank actually broke at the crank shaft pin slot. I have a power drill adapter that I tried next, but the drill started smoking and I stopped. I lifted and lowered it just last week without too much trouble, but the lift motor seemed a bit sluggish. It didn't want to lift, but it would lower ok after lifting with the hand crank. I removed the back bumper and opened the gear box to try and see why it would be stuck. Maybe that was a bad idea. There is a small long gear coming from the motor/break assembly, a middle gear, and a crank shaft gear. The middle gear popped out and there is a lot of grease lubricant, but I don't see anything that seems to be interfering with movement. Strangely, the main crankshaft turns fine with the middle gear out, but once I stop cranking, the weight of the roof makes it unwind and reseat in the closed position. The motor gear shaft also seemed to turn by hand (with pliers), though I didn't turn it much. When I reseated the middle gear between the motor and crankshaft gears, it is completely locked up and I can't get the assembly to turn at all. The middle gear just has a small pin that seats into a hole inside the gear box. It also seems to rotate smoothly around the teeth of each of the other gears independently. I am totally puzzled at what seems to be stopping the assembly from turning. I'm wondering if there is an issue with the electric motor and break unit, but if so I don't understand why I can seem to turn it without the middle gear in place. Any thoughts on how to troubleshoot and fix the issue would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Dingit]

I don't remember what it is, but there is something to disengage before using the manual crank. Did you disengage the thing I can't remember? The instructions for it are under my "media" because I've posted it before when the forum was apparently set up differently but I don't know how to get that here or how to link it....

 

[Dingit]

https://www.popupportal.com/media/img_20190817_173237.10924/

welll uh...you can get to it from there, just in case you don't have this from the manual. It was loose sheets tucked into mine. Not sure it helps though!

 

[BlueFrog23]

That is very interesting. I did not see this in the manual I have, but it is mostly loose leaf pages in a three ring binder. I have used the manual crank multiple times without disengaging anything. When we first got the PUP, the electric motor didn't work because of a wiring issue that I resolved later. It is a bit tiring because you are turning the crank through the engaged motor. But it worked to get it up an down. I definitely prefer using the electric lift motor, which isn't turning at all right now. It acts like it tries to turn with a short noise, but then quits. However, I will look into seeing if the unclipping the dynamic brake connector allows it to turn easily with the manual crank.

 

[BlueFrog23]

I do not appear to have the manual documents for the electronic lift system that appears to have been installed as an option on the PUP. It does look like it was installed, checked or serviced in October 2017. I did not find any kind of accessible plug for the blue and orange wires. There were hard wire splices and then everything goes into a box that is closed with rivets and not easily accessible. However, after further investigation, I am 95% confident there is something that has failed in the electric motor and dynamic break system. I got my battery fully charged and with the middle gear removed, I can freely turn the crank shaft that raises the roof. But without the dynamic break, it just unwinds and comes back down without constantly holding the crank shaft. Strangely, I can also manually rotate the small electric gear shaft by hand both directions. But when I use the electric controller, it will only turn a quarter turn before locking and then there is just a click-click-click sound, regardless of if I press the lift button or the lower button. I can subsequently manually turn the motor shaft either direction. I did install the middle gear after turning the motor shaft manually and I was able to turn the whole assembly about a quarter turn before it locked up. I'm not exactly sure how the dynamic break and electric motor system work, but it seems like it is engaging when it shouldn't be. In the past, I did not have to disengage anything. I could just use the hand crank to lift and lower the roof with the power on or off and it worked fine. Somehow it would hold the roof at whatever position until the crank was turned one way or the other. It was working that way just two weeks ago when I discovered I had accidentally forgotten to turn off the battery after taking some items out of the camper and it was completely dead. Mostly I just used the electric lift, though. I've added a few pictures, but I think I'm just going to order a new electric lift unit to replace it with. It really seems to me like something must have broken inside the motor housing and I do not want to try to take it completely apart to try and fix it.

 

[Dingit]

Ugh. I don't know. What a pain. I haven't had to take mine apart yet.

There is a lot of info here (and elsewhere on the web) about the Fleetwood/Coleman lift system which I believe has been pretty much the same for many years across most models (and not just the highwalls). So if you WANTED to take it all apart, you could probably find a guide somewhere.

 

[McFlyfi]

Probably not helpful, but...
The "click-click-click" and not turning is usually a sign of not enough voltage. Min '10 Niagara does that, even though I bypassed the original wiring, and wired the current limiter directly to the converter's DC output.
My issue seems to be start up stiction- the motor can't overcome the start up friction, and "click-click-click". What I do is put in the hand crank, and when pushing the Up button on the remote, crank the handle to get the lift started. This overcomes the start up friction.
Have you inspected/cleaned/lubed the whiffletree? Checked the cables/pulleys for binding?

 

[BlueFrog23]

I'm fairly certain it is getting enough voltage. I was reading a full 13 Volts while it was clicking and the motor was disconnected from the lift system (I had removed the intermediate gear). So that suggests the motor is experiencing excessive resistance internally. I do wonder if something got damaged with hand cranking it without disconnecting the orange and blue electric line as seems to be intended for this system. Whoever installed the electric lift appears to have hard-wired it rather than including the wire disconnect for manual cranking, but I didn't get a manual or documentation on the electric lift system when I purchased the camper from the previous owner, who purchased it from the original owner. Since the lift works fine with the dis-engaged crank, I'm highly confident replacing the electric lift will resolve my issue. Unfortunately, there are two styles, a round drive and a square drive. I suspect my 2007 camper uses the round drive, but I will have to detach it to be certain I order the right part.

 

[BlueFrog23]

I've ordered a replacement lift motor. It actually looks like it will be fairly easy to replace. My one uncertainty is that the lift motor comes with an electric plug/clip connector that I do not see on the existing motor. I can hard wire it in like it currently is, but it seems that could wreck the motor again if I have to hand crank it. If the clip is important, any ideas on how I add a clipping adapter to be able to connect and disconnect the motor for manually lifting? This part (https://colemanpopupparts.com/products/lift-motor-electrical-adapter) seems to be called an adapter, but it looks like I would still need to hardwire it into my existing wiring at the white connector end.

 

[BlueFrog23]

Well, I received the replacement lift motor from Coleman Popup Parts (https://colemanpopupparts.com/products/lift-motor-round-shaft-drive). I had to cut off the connector and hardwire it like the previous motor. I spoke with Derek at Coleman Popup Parts and he said that would be fine as long as I make sure the power is cut off at the battery and that I'm not plugged in to Shore Power if I have to manually crank it. I decided that was easier than getting the electrical clip adapter. Anyway, the install was fairly easy. Just had to loosen three allen screws, pull off the old motor assembly, cut the wires and splice the new motor wires in, slide the new motor on the shaft to engage the lift crank, tighten down the three allen srews, done. Everything is working smoothly for lifting and lowering the roof again. So glad to have it fully functional again. Thanks for the help and advice!