More on the 1lb propane cylinders.

Discussion in 'Propane - Got Gas' started by dbhost, Sep 17, 2021.

  1. dbhost

    dbhost Well-Known Member

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    I'm probably going to add a 5lb tank to my supplies in the future solely to fuel the Buddy heater.
     
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  2. Patrick w

    Patrick w Active Member

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    Just FYI, the flame king kit is also sold out now at REI. I filled the bottle, it was simple and fast. My only issue is that if your only filling one bottle, a lot of propane is wasted in the fill tube.
     
  3. Lug_Nut

    Lug_Nut Active Member

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    So I did research, and your links are less than useless, they are a waste of time. I wasted mine.
    So others don't, here's the upshot:
    The PHMSA goes on and on about cautions and advice to not refill 1 lb propane, but no law is cited that makes refilling illegal. The 2016 news report of a propane fire was caused by a leaking 20 lb bottle that was ignited by a space heater pilot light. The overlaid text later in the video of an up to $500,000 fine and 5 year imprisonment is related to the transportation of re-filled 1 lb cans, not the re-filling of them.
    The Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) pdf pertains to the manufacture of containers, i.e.: material specifications, weld processes, and such, nothing to do with re-filling 1 lb cans.

    Me? I refill. I've modified my method / technique / practice as I've found what I currently do is more effective and is easier than what I had posted previously.
    Now I chill the empty 1 lb cans. This has eliminated the need to slowly vent vapor while continuing to add liquid to obtain a full pound of content.
     
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  4. tfischer

    tfischer A bad day camping beats a good day at the office

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    This has already been mentioned in this thread. I believe it has to be across state lines for that to be enforceable but don't quote me on that.

    And your distinction is a bit moot... unless you're filling the bottles at the campground and using them up before you go home, you're transporting the cylinders.

    I'm not being the propane police here, just clarifying. Do whatever you find safe.
     
  5. dbhost

    dbhost Well-Known Member

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    USC 49 Section 5124 is the law and specific mention of transportation of refilling DOT39 propane cylinders. https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid:USC-1999-title49-section5124&num=0&edition=1999

    There is discussion if this relates to everyday citizens, or just common carriers I.E. truck drivers, and if this relates to transportation in interstate commerce, or can be applied to transportation within a state.

    You have been made aware of the risks physical, and legal. Do what you will with that information.

    As far as myself, and my family are concerned, spending more for the legal to refill flame king bottles and refill devices are worth the extra money to mitigate the legal risks.

    In the situation with the coffee shop that blew itself up due to a leaky I think it was a refill device, or 20lb cylinder valve, something like that, chances are better than good that the Flame King setup would not have done a single thing to mitigate the fire and explosion risk. They were handling an explosive vapor escaping propane handling procedure in close proximity to an open flame. This had WAY less to do with the refill cylinders than it did to do with just poor safety procedure. While I feel for the people killed, injured, and the loss of the business and jobs, it was an entirely foreseeable and preventable problem...
     
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  6. Lug_Nut

    Lug_Nut Active Member

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    More, un-related, linkage.... From the link cited above:
    §5124. Criminal penalty
    A person knowingly violating section 5104(b) of this title or willfully violating this chapter or a regulation prescribed or order issued under this chapter shall be fined under title 18, imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or both.

    So I look up section 5104(b), and it relates to tampering

    (b) Tampering.-A person may not alter, remove, destroy, or otherwise tamper unlawfully with-
    (1) a marking, label, placard, or description on a document required under this chapter or a regulation prescribed under this chapter; or
    (2) a package, container, motor vehicle, rail freight car, aircraft, or vessel used to transport hazardous material.

    Other content of the chapter appears to exempt small amounts of hazardous material transportation.

    §5108. Registration
    (a) Persons Required to File.—(1) A person shall file a registration statement with the Secretary of Transportation under this subsection if the person is transporting or causing to be transported in commerce any of the following:
    (A) a highway-route-controlled quantity of radioactive material.
    (B) more than 25 kilograms of a class A or B explosive in a motor vehicle, rail car, or transport container.
    (C) more than one liter in each package of a hazardous material the Secretary designates as extremely toxic by inhalation.
    (D) hazardous material in a bulk packaging, container, or tank, as defined by the Secretary, if the bulk packaging, container, or tank has a capacity of at least 3,500 gallons or more than 468 cubic feet.
    (E) a shipment of at least 5,000 pounds (except in a bulk packaging) of a class of hazardous material for which placarding of a vehicle, rail car, or freight container is required under regulations prescribed under this chapter.

    My propane one pounders are less than a liter, and are well under 3,500 gallons or 468 cu.ft.
     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2021
  7. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Well-Known Member

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  8. firepit

    firepit Well-Known Member

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    I was thinking along the same lines....Maybe i need to buy 4 bright orange flags...2 for the TV and 2 for the camper.
    Their may be a hidden law in the archives i don't kow about???...LOL
     
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