Opinions on RV Show pup deals.

Discussion in 'Camper Pre-Purchase Questions' started by davekro, Dec 2, 2019.

  1. McFlyfi

    McFlyfi Active Member

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    I think I already answered that...The Fred Hall show is huge, hundreds of rv's at the Kern county fairgrounds, and there are used units as well. In the 5-6 years we've gone, we've only seen pups in one year, 2years ago.
    I don't think there is a 'good' selection anymore- Starcraft, Jayco, Coleman/Fleetwood are all not producing pups.
    GreyFox is right- there's no money there. I would assume up front that there are no pups at a show, and if you happen to see one- bonus.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  2. davekro

    davekro Active Member

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    I appreciate the wisdom and experience and a reality check on show pricing and pups at that shows. This just reminded me, this summer when we were looking we stopped into the Manteca Jayco dealer. He had a lot of pop-ups. The salesman said we have to buy so many pop-ups from the manufacturers to have us carry their lines. We sell them at low prices to move them.
     
  3. davekro

    davekro Active Member

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    Yes, I have been overthinking this. My nature as mentioned before. I am grateful for the good information you all have shared on this thread. The picture I am coming to see, is that we really like the floor plan of our 10’ box, “wish” it had a slide out and was a little nicer, but it really does fit our needs quite nicely. Going forward I’ll focus on making the repairs to this pup and get back to Planning our camping trips and Having fun with our current Pup.

    Thank you all for the clarity received!
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2019
  4. Econ

    Econ Active Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. GreyFox

    GreyFox Well-Known Member

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    No one has, yourself included. [LOL] I have however been involved in this sport for 20 yrs now and have owned several popups, a hybrid, and a couple of travel trailers and have watched dealers and manufacturers steadily moving away from popups. With both now owned by Thor Industries, Jayco has put popup manufacturing on hold, Starcraft no longer builds any at all, and arguably the "best" of them all - Fleetwood / Coleman / FTCA - went out of business in 2011. Even Somerset popups which are built using plans & tooling from the former Somerset, PA Coleman plant now only offers one conventional model - the Utah - along with 3 versions of the off road E3. To buy one new you really have to want it as they're anything but inexpensive. You also should plan to keep it for a long, long time as you'll never get anywhere near what you think a few year old used one should sell for, well above a good used Fleetwood or Jayco or Starcraft, etc. [:O] It's a sad state of affairs for those who sincerely prefer camping in a popup but it's the reality of the world, at least here in N America, where for the price of a new popup one can now easily buy a hard side travel trailer. For dealers & manufacturers it's simply a matter of $$$$$, for the majority of prospective buyers it's all about comfort & convenience. :D
     
    jmkay1 likes this.
  6. davekro

    davekro Active Member

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    Very interesting graph! Where did you find that? That really highlights the reality of pups versus the rest of the industry. Dropping from 22% of the market 20 years ago to 2% of the market in 2015.

    I noticed you joined this community in August as I did. :) First noticing your signature...
    At first glance, I thought Space Kadett was a StarCraft model of PUP, LOL. (As opposed to a state of mind ;) ).
    I like your tagline. “I don’t suffer from insanity, I enjoy it.” That fits in with Buddhist philosophy. Suffering and pain are the result of not excepting what is/wishing things were different. Ah, the philosophical wisdom on this site! :)
     
  7. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    All true. I long for the days Where everything I needed was on my back and the camp site was wherever I was when it started getting dark. 60 years of camping.
     
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  8. GreyFox

    GreyFox Well-Known Member

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    A dinette slide when stowed in the travel position really limits a popup's interior storage space when compared to a similar popup with no dinette slide. Despite the popularity of slides a 12' box with or even without a front storage trunk makes far more sense to me than does one with a slide, particularly if the TV doesn't offer significant storage space itself. The Sun Valley / Tacoma models which topped out at 17' 2" coupler to bumper were some of the most popular Fleetwood models intended for family use and the bonus was they were one of very few models in which one could access the fridge with the roof down.

    [​IMG]

    Jayco's 1207 was similar @ 16.2' coupler to bumper ...

    [​IMG]

    Adding a front trunk to this design obviously improves storage capacity but also extends the trailer's travel / storage length to ~ 18' to 19'. Given that, the flexibility of a non slide 12 footer is hard to beat for family use. :)
     
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  9. Dingit

    Dingit Well-Known Member

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    I went to THAT show last year (or the year before...I forget these days) and there were no popups. There were a few of the specialty offroad types that I guess count as popups.

    Not even a Quicksilver (I think they've been discontinued now). No Jaycos (I think they've been discontinued now). I think the only new popup dealer in our area is Best out of Turlock (Rockwood) and they have too much other stuff to bother with popups at an RV show. I might be wrong. With all the new popups on the market (very few), save time and just go to the dealer.
     
    davekro likes this.
  10. Aladin Sane

    Aladin Sane I'd rather be camping

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    Rvs and boats are the two things I will never buy brand new. That initial depreciation is just too steep for me.
     
  11. davekro

    davekro Active Member

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    When we went to Turlock to look at a 17' Holiday Rambler TT, before we bought our pup, we saw Best RV in Turlock next to the freeway. We were blown away by the number of pups in their inventory storage area.
    This dealer has HUGE inventory. They have 10' box models from $10,500 to $12,000. https://www.bestrv.com/--inventory?category=trailer&dry_weight=0-2910&length=0-19&pg=1&subcategory=tent trailer

    Boy, these prices show there is very little mark up. As mentioned before, pups must be loss leader items for RV dealers. This encourages me to make my repairs and enjoy the floor plan we have and like.
     
  12. bheff

    bheff Well-Known Member

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    @davekro that place is HUGE!!!.
    After looking at some of the models you linked there really isn't anything different than what my 2011 Flagstaff has. Different colors and all my seats are cloth where as the new stuff is vinyl. No way could I justify the price when a used one will likely sell for almost half the $$. I hope to change out some of the fabrics this spring with lighter colored stuff. But $20k for a popup is why sales stink.
     
  13. Dingit

    Dingit Well-Known Member

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    They're definitely one of the big dealers out here (or rather, out there). I dragged my kids there in the summer. It was toasty. The children were not at all entertained.

    Pro tip for casual RV browsing: don't visit in your tow vehicle. They leave you alone if they don't think you can haul anything except maybe a popup. You don't need the salesfolk because you probably know more about popups than they do.
     
  14. GreyFox

    GreyFox Well-Known Member

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    Sadly true. At my local dealer not a single person working there owned a camper of any kind, 'though the owner did have a large MH for awhile which made the trip down to Florida a couple of times before he sold it. The dealer kept an older Fleetwood Bayside for staff to borrow anytime they got the urge to camp but only one that I know of ever did use it once each season. Reality is, RV dealership staff are too busy trying to earn a living to actually camp themselves and in many if not most cases don't have any first hand experience at all camping in what they sell. :(
     
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  15. Econ

    Econ Active Member

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    1) Unknown from where the graph came. It was early morn, had about 10 websites open and decided to do some housekeeping and close about 8. Closed some I didnt intend to.

    2) Lets take our emotions hat off and put our management hat on. If you enjoy a CPUP (Canvas PUP) I am happy for you but this is a nonemotional look at the future of the CPUP. By the way. I am an A Framer. Look at the avatar picture.

    My neighbor had a cPUP. They erected it a week in advance and cleaned it. Then let it air out for a week before leaving. Got home and cleaned it. Left it erect for a week to dry and air out.

    Observing the threads from a distance seems like the CPUP is very mechanical. There is a mechanical lifting mechanism that is always breaking. I assume this raises the roof. Mechanical devices are expensive to manufacturer and cause warranty claims. The good is they cause nonwarranty work for the dealer later.<GG>

    The sleeping quarters are the worst design possible if you winter camp or summer camp with A/C. They're designed for non a/c summer camping in the 1960's. An Aframe has the bed in the core of the camper close to the heater and A/C. A CPUP doesn't plus has not much insulation.

    Times have changed. Few have large numbers of offspring that a CPUP was designed for. Today it is all about convenience.

    Look at the decline of Boy Scouts and other groups that teach self reliance and skills.

    A CPUP is a beginners camper. It is built around a low price point and a smaller TV. It is probably expensive to build compared to a TT. No complex mechanics in a 17' TT. TT are easy to set up

    After that peak in the late 90's there will be plenty of used CPUP's on the market as people cycle out of the camping world with age and lack of interest. Demand for new will continue to drop.

    The average person is less mechanical nowadays. The number who have the skill sets to rebuild/maintain a camper is shrinking making ownership more expensive

    Standards have changed. We don't need a house we need a Mac Mansion.

    With looser credit and larger TV's it is easier to get into a portable apartment aka TT.

    The biggest factor is look at the younger generations who are replacing the current CPUP owners. Look at the average skillset , desires, and how they think.

    Why did we get an AFrame? Sets up and tears down in less than half the time of a CPUP. Better heating and cooling effects. Better MPG than a TT. The perfect size for 2 people. "Bear legal " at national parks. Higher retail price so there is money in them and an incentive for dealers to carry them. Better security. A sharp knife goes thru canvas quickly. It will take you over 10 seconds to make it thru a fiberglass wall and that is all the time I need to greet you properly.<GG> No smell. No mold. No canvas to replace. You can set up in Walmarts parking lot without it looking like your camping. If the parking lot is reasonably flat I can be in bed in less than 2 minutes after turning the engine off. I am not trying to live my childhood and tentcamping. My old ass needs a real mattress.

    Times have changed. There will come to a point where the manufacturers will stop production except for a few higher end CPUP's and that maybe soon. Look at the age of the CPUPs in portal members signatures.

    As a culture we have used TV , cell phones and Ritalin to babysit kids and look at the results (ON AVERAGE, not individually)

    ok, management hat off you can put the emotions hat back on.

    3) Nope, always been accused of being lost in deep space, hence: a Space Kadett.

    4) I am not Southern Baptist like the majority of the Deep South. Insanity is just merely a different perspective. I don't see things the way most do. That's an advantage.
     
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