PopupGizmos has a question for Relfectix users

Discussion in 'Heating / Cooling Systems' started by popupgizmo, Feb 24, 2010.

  1. Dusty82

    Dusty82 Active Member

    Messages:
    3,513
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Location:
    Northern Nevada
    I think, if I'm not mistaken, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but the reason Gizmos work is not so much for their insulating qualities, but more from their reflective qualities. Is that right? Following that logic, it seems to me that the use of the reflective material inside the pup would have the same effect as hanging, say, a quilt - or any other insulation for that matter. That's why Gizmos are placed on the outside of the bunk roof, rather than the inside. Covering the outside with the reflective material works by not only adding layers of insulation, but also reflecting the sun's rays. Am I right on this, or am I just whistling in my hat?
     
  2. popupgizmo

    popupgizmo Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Actually, you right on one of your points. Yes to the gizmos reflect heat...on the outside by reflecting sun light..i.e. heat...which reduces heat build up on the top canvas and as such stopping that heat build up from entering the camper. They do not insulate the camper from heat, they simply block heat transmission by reflecting light. As for insulating qualities, the gizmos...while having a measurable R-value...it is so low a number (R-value) that it is of little consequence. Relfectix has more R-value, but again...relatively speaking...the R-value is very low. The real value of radiant barrier material like Reflectix and our material is it's ability to block thermal transmission by reflection, not insulation.

    As for lining the inside of the bunks with the example you noted...a quilt...this would also block the loss of heat. But not in the same manner as the gizmos or any other radiant barrier and not as efficiently. In the case of a quilt, heat blockage would occur more as a function of insulation. Yes, there would be some reflective blockage...heck, even a sheet of paper will have some reflective qualities. But the quilt would function more as an insulator...not as a radiant barrier. And as such, the quilt's heat blockage abilities will directly correlate to it's R-value. Quilts, comfy as they are, have poor R-value.

    One other note should be made: No matter what material is used...stopping air flow is important here and any material used in the manner of this topic can block air flow. As is the case of this topic, the materials we are discussing do this quite good.

    The advantage of using a radiant barrier is you can accomplish these goals very well...heat loss blockage and wind blockage...with a very light weight material. Also, since a radiant barrier is reflecting heat...not just blocking it...believe it or not you can actually feel heat being transferred off the radiant material...a quilt for example would be absorbing the heat much more so than reflecting it.
     
  3. merc

    merc Member

    Messages:
    160
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    I think I paid about $50 including tax for my 4x25 roll of reflectix. It did every window except one small window by the door, and the big window above the counter.
     
  4. Oysterpot

    Oysterpot New Member

    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2008
    Location:
    Smithville, Tennessee
    I like the idea of the wrap, like Steve was talking about. Maybe with the "dark side" out. That makes more sense. If your going to the trouble of providing some insulating materials to the bunks, then the top needs to be included.

    my 2 cents
     
  5. rabird

    rabird Howdy!

    Messages:
    6,700
    Likes Received:
    300
    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2006
    Location:
    TX
    Double bobble reflectix has a R value ~ 3/4" plywood (R-1.1 (per layer) for the Reflective/Double Bubble product). Both resist conductive heat flow & reflects 96% of the radiant energy that strikes it's surface.

    single sided - reflective/low e side faces air space.
    Either on attic floor shinny side up or attic ceiling shinny side down.

    "Reflective" or "low emissivity" materials found in the construction industry can be used with equal effectiveness on either or both sides of a physical barrier that needs to be insulated. Although reflective insulation is often thought of as a "mirror" to heat waves as if heat was like "light", a more accurate analogy is to think of the material as both "deaf" and "mute" to heat waves that are "sound". Reflective/low-emissivity materials reduce radiant heat transfer by not "hearing" heat waves, i.e. not absorbing radiant heat,and by not being able to produce ( or emit) it on the the other side.
     
  6. krh1130

    krh1130 New Member

    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Location:
    Michigan
    I like this idea. :) If it had been available last year before we bought Reflectix, I would have definitely bought this for $60. If this comes to market, I will remember it for the future if/when we need to replace anything or just want to upgrade. [;)]

    We bought the gizmo's last year and really like them. I don't care if my pup looks like a spaceship.......as long as I can stay relatively cool in July at Myrtle Beach. [SUN] [8D]
     
  7. popupgizmo

    popupgizmo Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Yep, what he says.

    Bob
     
  8. Dusty82

    Dusty82 Active Member

    Messages:
    3,513
    Likes Received:
    10
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2008
    Location:
    Northern Nevada
    Thanks for answering my questions Bob!

    My post was geared more toward the people asking why you didn't make a Gizmo that fit on the inside of the pup. My point was that you don't need a reflective material inside the pup. You need it on the outside, where it'll do what it's designed to do - reflect the sun's rays. My mention of the quilt was just to illustrate that you could hang anything inside a pup to help insulate it, but insulation and reflection are two different things.

    Also keep in mind that I was talking about keeping a pup cooler, not warmer. I would imagine that a reflective material inside the pup in the winter time would help your pup's heater keep you warmer by reflecting the heat back into the pup.

    Now a couple of real questions for you, Bob - do you think an awning cover, or street-side window awning made of your Gizmo material would help keep the pup cooler? And do you sell the material you make your Gizmo's out of by the yard? If so, at what width?

    I'm gathering the supplies to make the street side window awning mod shown in this thread:

    http://www.popupportal.com/index.php?topic=26164.0

    I was wondering if you thought that your Gizmo material would be a good candidate for this mod, and if so, if it's available by the yard.
     
  9. popupgizmo

    popupgizmo Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Oops...was thinking about keeping heat in...so I misunderstood. Yes, you are right...to keep heat out the covers would need to be on the outside.

    Hadn't seen the awning mod before...that is very, very cool...man, I love DIY, really very inventive.
    Yes, you could use a radiant barrier for the awning. Contact me off forum to discuss.
     
  10. Mr. Bill

    Mr. Bill PUP-2002 Flagstaff 725D TV- 2004 Dodge Ram 1500

    Messages:
    621
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2009
    Location:
    Geneva, OH
    I haven't had the need for Gizmos (and DW doesn't like to spend too much on PUP); guess we have been lucky and camp near shade and with the AC / Heater / heated mattresses have been comfortable so far.

    I will say that I like the ideas posted by Steve and 3pillons make a lot of sense and if I were purchasing some, that would be what I was looking for.

    you could make them attach with velcro for the side panels so people that have them could do an add on by using their own velcro. Have them bungee under the bunk and you have a great product.

    Good luck. If I do find the need in the future, I will purchase them from you.
     
  11. JulesCamper

    JulesCamper Indianapolis, IN

    Messages:
    423
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2008
    Location:
    Indianapolis, IN
    I would buy whatever popupGizmos sold-however they made it
     
  12. bearnbrie

    bearnbrie Member

    Messages:
    257
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2009
    Location:
    East Texas
    Hello Bob, why not something like PopupSteve suggested but with the sides and end going all the way to the ground with the sides and top being one piece and the end being zippered to it. That way, if you wanted to you can unzip it from the ground up as high as needed, roll the sides up and ends up as high as you like then with sewn in ties, (like the inside window covers in the older popups use) just tie them up. This could have gromets along bottom to stake down, like some people have done with tarps fitting under bunkends for enclosed storage and wind resistance. Kill two birds with one stone. Insulate entire bunkend, create under bunk storage, stop wind flow under bunk, unzip and roll up when you want some breeze or the view.Also supply a bag to pit each in with a dray string.
     
  13. TheWunders

    TheWunders Parkville, Maryland

    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2004
    I did the reflectix mod for our winter camping trips. It really makes a big difference. The problem with a packaged set for some of us is that some campers have bunk ends that are not the same size. The end panels are the same but the two side panels on each bunk are different.
     
  14. Sweet Chariot

    Sweet Chariot New Member

    Messages:
    170
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2009
    Location:
    Burnaby/Okanagan
    Would be interested. But just recieved our high wind solar gizmos, so will try these out first.

    For me, ease of take-down/put-up is king, and these would provide that benefit over reflectix.
     
  15. popupgizmo

    popupgizmo Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Ok...time to make a decision folks. You all have shared some great ideas and I am truly thankful for everyone's help...and support.

    We're going to make some prototypes and try 'em out in/on our secret mobile test facility with-in the next few weeks. I will post the results here. We know the concept works so testing isn't about that. The focus will be on ease of use since this is one of the most important values we...PUG...will be providing. The other value of course is price. Bottom line, the final product will have to combine both the noted values in a manner that beats the alternatives. Dang, sounds like a business 101 course...stay tuned!

    Best regards,

    Bob Pitney
     
  16. gkosel

    gkosel Fargo, ND (Next Trip - ?)

    Messages:
    492
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2008
    Location:
    Fargo, ND
    Thanks Bob!

    I hope your results will include pictures.

    Really looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

    Gregg
     
  17. bobhcs

    bobhcs Colorado Springs

    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2008
    Location:
    Colorado Springs
    I'll be looking forward to seeing the new product. It sounds great! I love the idea of not having to remove it before packing up.
     
  18. bpolwort

    bpolwort Member

    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2010
    Looking forward to the new product. If you produce these, I will buy a set!!
     
  19. Digger

    Digger Foothills of Central Virginia

    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Location:
    Foothills of Central Virginia
    Have a great time....and be sue to write the trip off as a business expense [:D]
     
  20. popupgizmo

    popupgizmo Member

    Messages:
    73
    Likes Received:
    4
    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2008
    Howdy All,

    Just a quick up-date...we tried some various styles intended to hold the material up-right in the windows...sort of had some success but will need to do some more experimenting. Since we're coming into camping season business wise, we'll keep working on this but it will be a bit on the back burned. Goal will be to have the product up and running before the next cold weather season.

    Many thanks for everyone's help, ideas and comments. We couldn't do it with you.

    Best regards,

    Bob
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.