Premium gas?

Discussion in 'On The Road' started by ham fam, Sep 21, 2021.

  1. Patrick w

    Patrick w Active Member

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    They do say they add more detergent.
     
  2. Patrick w

    Patrick w Active Member

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  3. Patrick w

    Patrick w Active Member

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    I've got a few generators, and weed Wackers that have their fuel lines crumble. More in the tank than elsewhere. More carbs that have pitting and corrosion.
    Even if you don't believe that part, ethanol just doesn't have the energy density of gasoline.

    It's just another scam. Remember that other additive before ? Mtbe?
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTBE_controversy

    Ny legislated it to be added.... And then woops. Now we got this crappy lower fuel economy ethanol that we can't even store for long periods of time.
     
  4. theseus

    theseus Living the Darkside... Silver Supporting Member

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    I have only run premium in on of my tow vehicles, a 91 Ford Explorer. It needed 90+ octane when towing to avoid knocking. Other than that only my small engines get premium with fuel stabilizer in it.
     
  5. mandinga

    mandinga Active Member

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    I net about 10% better fuel mileage with E0 91 octane, vs E10 87 octane. At Costco, the difference in price is about 7-8%. So it's cheaper to run premium from Costco. Other gas stations charge about about 15-18% more, so cheaper to run regular.
     
  6. Patrick w

    Patrick w Active Member

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    Can you get 87 non ethanol? Around here you have to go to higher octane to get non ethanol as well. Very hard to get.
     
  7. firepit

    firepit Well-Known Member

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    we have 87 with or without ethanol here
     
  8. fronsm

    fronsm First time owner at 67

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    I had a 2018 equinox 2.0 turbo. It recommends premium fuel. I mostly drive around town And get about 26 miles per gallon, but when I took a recent trip north in Michigan and back I netted 32 miles per gallon. I don't engineer cars so I will just follow the recommendations of the manufacturer. That way if something goes wrong it's their fault not mine.
     
  9. Othelzer

    Othelzer New Member

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    I am a navy-trained diesel mechanic and gas turbine tech. Why that is important is onboard ship I was a fuel oil and water king. After this, I worked in refineries as a millwright and powerplants and cement plants.
    I am 61, back in 1965 when dad pulled the blue VW bus up to Texaco to get a fill-up and a stoneware dinner plate. The smell of leaded gas and high octane 110,
    medium 105 and regular was 95.
    My dad would sniff the gas as if it was a French wine. Cheap buzz I guess.
    Now that VW had the same compression ratio. The higher octane would burn faster and create more heat and power
    But tetraethyl lead was outlawed as an additive to gasoline/petrol.
    Nothing works as a good as the lead, we have MEK. Methyl ethel keytone, ( thAt red fuzzy stuff on spark plug.
    This is added to lower peak combustion temp along with exhaust gas recirculation and now instead fuel injection with a lean burn cooked into a fuel map in computer.

    So far so good, no test on that part.
    This next section is Smoky Yunik level.
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokey_Yunick

    87 has more fuel energy and less MEK because the gasoline has larger slower medium-chain hydrogen/carbons and is less likely to pre-detonate because of high temps.
    You can put this in your Mercedes Benz and drive across the country at 70 miles an hour no harm, if your doing 130 in a cannonball run you better tank up the good stuff.

    Conversely, if you put good stuff in your Troy-Bilt gizmo. That is designed to load up all day at 80% rated horsepower and torque you can burn stuff up with that PTO leaf blower and triple-blade cutting deck.

    So the same with generators, if you are coasting. Any fuel will do. Fresh fuel is all you care about.

    If you are running two roof-mount A/C units on a 6000 watt genny with soft starts you are sucking fuel generating heat and developing a lot of power, add to that the wife starting a microwave or inductive cooktop and you get a recipe for a short generator life. They all have aluminum connecting rods without bearings.

    Few things, in all air-cooled engines, run a true synthetic like Mobil 1 or Amsoil.
    Valvoline and Castrol are mineral base stock oils they still break down at 350-375.
    Mobil one 420 Amsoil bout the same.
    So yeah like that keeps temps down if your oil works under load

    The jets on a generator are made to run on a certain grade of fuel at or near a full load.
    If you're working your engine hard use proper grade fuel. I still use marvel mystery oil in the top end.
    Stable fuel additive makes light fuel components into more stabilized medium chain molecules so they dont evaporate out. I have never found them useful i practice run dry under no load conditions.
    If you have 2 or three months between startups it could be useful.

    Dont keep stale gas a year
    I put five gallons in the Benze that was 6 months old, i regretted that it nearly diddent start, i diluted it right away


    P.S. dont add stabil to eathanol
    Bad, very very sticky gluey varnish bad
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2021
  10. wusthof

    wusthof Active Member

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    In our ecoboost (3.5L), we run regular for normal around town driving, but if we're gunna tow, run premium a week before. It's OK to run regular, the engine just detunes itself. Not paying for premium if we don't have to > $1.70 per liter ($6.80 per gallon)
     
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  11. E.D.

    E.D. New Member

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    Our experience has been that whether the fuel is top tier vs non-top tier makes a big difference about preventing fuel injector problems over the long haul. We stopped using cheap gas from Safeway and things have improved a lot. Main thing we learned is to not allow gas to set in the tank too long. If we don't plan to be driving our tow vehicle much at all after camping season, we only leave about a quarter tank of gas in it and make sure that at the last fill, we added fuel injector treatment to the tank. That has solved our on again off again check engine light that indicated a fuel injector problem. Our tow vehicle is a 93 Mercury Villager van. We only figured this out in the past 7 years, but it has really made a difference. Performed like a champ even at very high elevations towing this last trip (over 12000 ft elevation) and easily passed smog inspection last week with nearly 150k miles on it. https://www.toptiergas.com/licensed-brands/
     
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  12. RonDad

    RonDad Active Member

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    Ford recommendation…?
     
  13. lifespeed

    lifespeed Active Member

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    This is false, higher octane has nothing to do with temperature. It resists detonation under high compression ratio, cylinder pressure (turbo/supercharging) and load. Read the manual, follow the specifications for your vehicle. Most run on regular, but some require premium. Usually these are high-performance cars, not utes and trucks.
     
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  14. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Well-Known Member

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    I realize that, i should have stated the higher the octaine the higher the pressure thats in the cylinder. I was told it was how hot it burned and how some engines can not take the higher heat. It more likely that some engiens can not take the higher pressures. Or it could be residueal heat from the slower burning high octaine priducing more heat in the engine. So it could be tempature but not from burning hotter, just longer. i do not remember exactly. They might not even make those type of cars anymore, lol. I belive it had to do with early aluminum engiens or something to that effect. The rest is still correct, you can damage your car using the incorect fuel.
     
  15. Patrick w

    Patrick w Active Member

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    Higher octane does not burn hotter. Higher octane does however allow the engine to pack more fuel into the cylinder before ignition. That can result it producing more BTU's of heat, which can be more heat than the coolant system and exhaust system can handle. A single revolution of fuel dense high octane won't overheat anything. But very rarely is it ever only one revolution (considering things like 5000rpm, and a mountain pass that is 10 minutes long is now 50000 revolutions).
    Burning 87 at cruising flat road speed doesn't result in any more residual heat than burning 100 octane. As you increase load, the residual heat left over from each firing cycle starts to increase. Even if your temp gauge shows normal, the cylinder temps are increasing. The item with the least amount of cooling capability is the pistons and exhaust valve.
    At some point the cylinder and piston heads are hot enough that uncontrolled detonation can occur. On turbo vehicle, the compressed intake air is also hotter than atmospheric (dependent on boost, intercooler sizing, etc). Extra hot air, + not enough fuel yet = pinging knock, etc.

    Anyways, from some ford (fan) website (take it for what its worth):

    "The EcoBoost has a factory “auto octane adjustment” feature present in the ECU. This feature allows the ECU to self-adjust according to the type of fuel being used (be it 87, 90 or 93 octane, etc.). You can get the best performance from your 3.5L EcoBoost by using the premium higher octane fuel."

    Older cars did not have this capability. Think Supra, GNX, 300ZX, and I believe still applies to turbo subarus.

    http://www.subarumanuals.org/subaru-3246.html
    "
    The engine is designed to operate using premium unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 91 AKI (95 RON) or higher. If premium unleaded gasoline is not available, regular unleaded gasoline with an octane rating of 87 AKI (90 RON) or higher may be temporarily used. For optimum engine performance and driveability, it is required that you use premium grade unleaded gasoline.

    NOTE
    Be sure to use premium unleaded gasoline of 91 AKI (95 RON) or higher.


    If other gasoline (lower than 91 AKI (95 RON)) is used, knocking, reduced output and poor accelerator response will result."

    There are some folks who will modify their ECU's to run on ethanol (e85). I think its like equivalent to like 130 octane. You can boost like crazy without pre detonation.
    https://www.f150online.com/articles/tuned-f-150-e85-sleeper/


     
  16. Anthony Hitchings

    Anthony Hitchings Well-Known Member

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    Regular, same as always. No problems.
     
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  17. tenttrailer

    tenttrailer Art & Joyce - Columbus, O

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    No big deal if it 87 to 93. What ever your manufacturer recommends. With my TV when towing a popup I alway check on long trips octane levels. I would run 3 tanks of each. Which ever gave me the best MPG is what I ran. I figure what ever was most efficient would develop the least carbon buildup.
     
  18. jeepster04

    jeepster04 Active Member

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    I've always tried to run a tank of 93 before I'll be towing, more so if its going to be hot while towing. My engine has knock sensors so running 87 is fine, it will just retard the timing thus give you lower power. I can tell a difference towing with 93 rather than 87.
     
  19. wusthof

    wusthof Active Member

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    An option. "Premium fuel is recommended for best overall vehicle and engine performance", BUT regular is fine as power output is lessened by the engine mgmt system. So I have 350hp instead of the 365hp. I think my wife is fine with that lol
     
  20. davido

    davido Well-Known Member

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    Yes, this depends entirely on the tow vehicle, and you have to read the manufacturer's recommendation.

    • My (ex-wife's, now) 2015 Ford Explorer Sport with a 350HP ecoboost engine can take regular or premium. The manual recommends premium but allows regular. You bet that when towing we would run premium through it. But we mostly did that even when not towing. But this engine has a twin turbo, and presumably runs higher compression than a naturally aspirated engine would. So it is more predisposed to knocking and pinging with regular fuel, by its design.
    • My 1995 Ford Bronco XLT 5.8L runs great on regular, and doesn't even recommend higher octane. I used to go for the mid-grade when towing, but on my most recent trip I went with standard grade, and saw no red flags on that nearly 7h round trip (3.5h each way) tow.
    The reason to go with higher grade fuel is to resist compression / heat induced pre-detonation. Pre-detonation (pinging) becomes more likely under heavy load where the engine will run hotter, and engine design often advances the timing a little. If your vehicle doesn't ping under load using regular fuel, then you gain zero benefit from higher octane fuel. Here's where it gets tricky. Modern engines have knock sensors that will retard timing a bit if pinging / knocking is detected. So you can't really tell that you would benefit from better fuel except by noticing a slight reduction in power under heavy load going up hills. And that may be an imperceptible difference without equipment to measure. This is why you should follow the recommendation of the manufacturer.

    So in the case of the 2015 Ford Explorer Sport (EcoBoost 6cyl) the recommendation is to use Premium fuel, and that regular is acceptable. That's a vehicle where you absolutely should use premium while towing.
    In the case of the 1995 Ford Bronco 5.8L, premium isn't mentioned in the manual at all, only standard. And the vehicle is rated to tow up to 7000 pounds. So towing a 3200 pound trailer -- well within the limits -- is probably not a situation where any fuel upgrade would be useful.

    If people who really needed premium fuel were the only ones buying it, a lot less of it would get sold. I'm convinced most people who pump it do so because it makes them feel good, not because the car runs better.
     
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