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Discussion in 'Tow Vehicles, Hitch & Towing' started by Dback2k4, Oct 10, 2019.
Depending on what time of night it is gas can be hard to find here still
All electric cars should have a small generator for emergencies. At least until the charging infrastructure is more mature. It could be any fuel source, even a solar panel would be better than nothing.
nah wasted space/weight/complexity if 1) not only vehicle 2) live somewhere where a car isn't needed everyday like cities or places with good public transportation/Uber.
I specifically searched out a battery-only BMW i3 as a second family car (other is a good old gas powered Town and Country) and it's ~125mile range has been more than enough as a daily driver. Charge full every day at work or home and rarely drop below 25% battery capacity.
Thats great if you have both a short commute to work and a place to charge it while there. But thats probably not the norm. Additionally ,some like me, need the ability of the 4 wd in addition to being able to operate in natural disasters. I can get gas in those situations, but electricity isn't avalibe now ( or in the foreseeable future )for those situations.
I'm playing devil's advocate here. I'm a Tesla fanboy, but I'm also very practical that not all situations are met by the current design.
How do you fill up your gas tank in a natural disaster? No power, no gas. I've never seen a gas station with a generator.
The norm? You are not the norm. MANY studies show the average driver drives 30 miles per day. Period.
Be honest, how many people function in natural disasters? How many people go 4-wheeling. (I'm assuming that's what you meant, not AWD, cause many Electric cars have AWD).
Heck, how many people you know that think camping is a fun time? (Many of my family don't get it).
I'm a Mega Commuter. (travel 90 minutes or more and 50 miles or more to work, one-way.) This is different than an extreme commuter which is only one of those (50 miles, or 90 minutes, but not both).
A Model S or a Model 3 (or even a Cybertruck) has more than enough range to do my 180 mile round trip commute each day, only charging at home.
As for the lines, you are right, the infrastructure is not where it needs to be. But that is being built. "...upcoming 250 kW-capable V3 Superchargers, capable of giving 75 miles worth of charge to a Model 3 in just five minutes, beginning in 2020...)
These signs are still common, so it's not just an electric car problem:
Follow up question, how many miles do you drive in a natural disaster?
I have to go to and from work, just like all the first responders in my area, its congested in the tri state area and most commute. Fuel is provoded by the town you work in. So they have pumps and generators. They do not have any way to charge electric vehicles nor do they have any infrastructure in place now or the forseeable future for that. Its not in the budget, tbh no one has even asked. It has to be the norm before it will have money spent on it. And right now it isnt. As for millage, like you said it depends on traffic also. So my normally 40 min dive to work averages about 1 hr and 15 mins during rush hour. Avrage travel time to work in nj is roughly 35 mins. But that factors in the whole state. As taxes are much higher the closer you get to nyc, many of those workers live more then an hour away. Snd while not the norm for most it is so for most first responders in my area. ( teachers also).
For sure we're not at the point where it's feasible to get rid of ALL gas/diesel vehicles.
What I took issue with was the statement "All electric cars should have a small generator for emergencies.".
Millions and millions of Americans could replace their daily-driven ICE vehicle with a pure-electric EV with no need for a "range extender". A home 240V "level 2" charger will recharge the battery fully overnight for the equivalent cost of refilling the tank of ICE car that gets >100mpg.
Sure it's not yet practical for a majority of apartment dwellers (I was one for a loooong time so no offense intended) or those in a city without widespread charging network, but for a very large percentage of drivers 125++ miles of range per charge is more than sufficient for a daily driver.
PS: thanks to SJM and all other first responders! And teachers
. This actually brings up a very good point. I live near DC and if a disaster happens my go-to place is a good 2.5 hour drive from here. Would an all electric car be able to handle a drive like that without a charge? I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to track down a charge station in an emergency.
SJM9911 brings up a good point...traffic. Like him a normal 25 min drive on a "good" weekend
is a good hour + in rush hour traffic. Parking garages etc don't have charge stations yet so the next charge probably wouldn't be until you get home again which means yet another hour + of traffic. Add snow to the mix... oh man, it takes hours.
There are several here, natural gas powered usually.
Electrical grid is about as trustworthy as the weather here.
Traffic won’t impact an EV much at all since it isn’t constantly burning fuel while sitting still like an engine. Some will be used for climate control and the electronics, but it will be a fraction of what’s used by an engine idling. Even the tiny battery in my Prius (compared to an EV) can maintain A/C and power the car in stop and go traffic for 10-15 minutes on a hot day before it fires up the engine to recharge it. Going slow in traffic actually benefits an EV since wind resistance is the biggest obstacle.
This is interesting, the batteries last longer then i thought they would, but warmer climate makes them weaker faster.
I'm not on board with electric yet. How are you going to head up to the mountains, spend a week off grid, and still have power to make it back to civilization? Maybe if they can get the range / recharging / reliability issues sorted at a reasonable cost, I might see electric as a viable alternative, But for now, with the places I like to go, internal combusion for me for the foreseeable future.
Its going to get worse i think. I like the idea but the delivery isnt there yet. Tesla superchargers seem great. But there aren't many of them and they are proprietary. So , when the other electrics hit the market, ford , chevy , and the 2 other start up companies how will this all play out? Without a fast charge option it will only be for local use. Now if tesla was smart it would sell the tec to the competitors for charging. That would at least solidify that they would always be in buisness as the only fast charging station. The more i think about it the more I'll sit on the sidelines and see how it all plays out.
. I read that same article and also found it interesting. I'm still curious if a test has been done on the cold as well.
I'm just curious as to when a lot of folks start installing chargers at home will the grid be able to handle that much of a load especially during the summer when most folks have their A/C units on. I know there are different levels of chargers (L1 & L2). Most families have more than one car. Now multiply that by every household in the town!
The car can be set to charge overnight when A/C use is lower and some utilities offer lower rates, which will help during the transition while the grid is eventually upgraded. I was playing around a few weeks ago and daydreaming about my future Cybertruck and saw that even here in KY our power company already offers this type of plan.
Engineering Explained recently put out a good video on it with some food for thought.
Ford released details on the electric F-150 Lightning last night. The real surprise of the night was the low price. $40,000 for the base work truck, which is still 4x4 crew cab and 230 miles range. The mainstream XLT will be $52,000. Then there’s an optional long range battery good for 300 miles. A comparable gas 4x4 crew cab with even the base NA V6 is $46,000 and the 5.0 V8 is $48,000. Plus Ford still has plenty of $7,500 federal rebates available so it would be even cheaper than the gas one if the buyer is eligible for even part of the rebate. It makes a strong argument for itself.
The real wild card though is the range while towing, which will probably be it’s biggest downside, especially considering Ford has to rely on 3rd party chargers and doesn’t have Tesla’s superior Supercharger network. Tesla’s towing tend to only get 1/3-1/2 of their range while towing, so it’s very possible the Lightning could only get about 100 miles while towing something unaerodynamic, which will be pretty restrictive until more chargers are built away from just interstates and major highways. The good news for us here is that our pups shouldn’t have nearly as large of an effect on it as a TT would. 2022 will be interesting to see the battle between the Lightning and the Cybertruck.
The tow ratings are not yet set. I saw something like 8k to 10 k for the max towing. I will say that for me ellectric is not even close to have it tow. Maybe in 10 years. Maybe. But we will see.
Since I retired the Jeep sees maybe 100 miles/month. The perfect candidate for switching to electric. But how do I justify the cost of a new car, plus the cost of electrical service upgrades to my home, when the Jeep does what I need at less than the cost of a tank of gas a month.
Pre-covid, we would make three or 4 long trips per year in the Silverado towing the camper. It could rack up more miles in a single trip than the Jeep sees in a year. As long as I'm content to stick to the interstates we could probably travel indefinitely. But the places we usually go are not within a safe "charging distance" of the interstates. I have been surprised at some of the places I've seen charging stations but I doubt that I'll still be driving by the time the charging infrastructure reaches the point to make it reasonable to tow with an electric in the southwest.
In 2014 I bought a VW Jetta Hybrid. At the time I was commuting to work and back about 30 miles round trip, and sometimes a bit longer. The sort of rush-hour freeway driving like that is perfect for that car's wheelhouse, and I would routinely get 45+mpg, where I was seeing about 20 with my old car.
And then about 4 months later I was laid off, from that job where I had worked 18 years and had no intentions of leaving. I eventually got a different job downtown, and up until the pandemic hit last year, took the bus to work 99% of the time. So I never really got to see the payback on the hybrid like I thought I would.
We replaced the hybrid this past March, sort of. We still have it, and now my 16yo is driving it. I still take it on longer trips, as my new car gets closer to 23mph.
I'd love a Tesla but I paid about $20K for a brand new Jetta (non-hybrid) vs the $35+K for the Tesla.
None of this relates to towing obviously lol.