This will rot your socks.

Discussion in 'General Camping Discussion Forum' started by nineoaks2004, Apr 26, 2015.

  1. Rusty2192

    Rusty2192 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    455
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    I think you and I may be the only ones that actually read the article and not just the sensationalist headline. The meat of the article said absolutely nothing about fixing your car. It was all about tuners for the ECU. So those companies that make those and their customers would take a big hit were this to ever become law, but that is a tiny percentage of drivers. DMCA has to do with computer programming. Even my Prius has a vast majority of mechanical parts with no computer programming that could never be regulated using the DMCA.
     
  2. LaTuFu

    LaTuFu New Member

    Messages:
    189
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2014
    They are also trying to get a fundamental transformation of the way a vehicle or piece of equipment is owned. Right now, when you purchase your car, its yours. You own it. What these major corporations are trying to do is change it from ownership of the vehicle to ownership of an implied license to use the vehicle for the life of the vehicle. Sounds like no big deal, but if you don't technically own the car, just the right to use it, then you have given up a certain degree of control of that property. Cue the law of unintended consequences, and it is not outside the realm of possibility that computer sensors are extended to places like routine service points, to allow the manufacturer to say that in order to maintain the license to operate, the routine services must be performed by a licensed technician. The license, of course, must be purchased from the manufacturer.

    I don't see this as a means of preventing people from working on their cars. I see this as an attempt by major corporations to create another revenue stream--by selling licenses to work on the vehicles they own to places like dealerships and independent mechanics. Currently, they only make money from dealership serviced cars, and even then, most of the revenue remains with the dealership. If the dealership is required to pay annual licensing fees, as well as independents who currently don't pay anything beyond technical training, they've unlocked a whole new stream of income.

    It'll be the automotive equivalent of music streaming services. Apple is currently hard at work trying to do the same thing with their new Beats streaming service (which you'll have to pay for). They're trying to force music companies to stop licensing the "free" services like Spotify and Pandora, so they can corner the market on music streaming and force you to pay for it. Not shocking the auto makers are trying to do the same thing.
     
  3. catseye

    catseye all I remember is dirt...sky...dirt...ambulance

    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2014
    Location:
    Raleigh NC
    ^^^as you type on the computer...on the internet.... [:D]
     
  4. redneckgearhead

    redneckgearhead New Member

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Which parts?
     
  5. Rusty2192

    Rusty2192 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,029
    Likes Received:
    455
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    Anything mechanical that doesn't have a computer chip or digital data. Starting from the ground up there are the tires, rims, brakes, axels, body panels, windows, etc. etc. Even most parts in the engine are just chunks of metal with no programming. Now, I could maybe see an automaker trying to claim old fashioned copyright on proprietary parts so that 3rd party aftermarket makers couldn't fabricate them, but that still is not DMCA. Since that hasn't happened yet in 100 years of cars, I think we are probably safe.
     
  6. redneckgearhead

    redneckgearhead New Member

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    Every component you mentioned is either computer controlled or monitored..... it's as easy as a simple program change to shut down the car if any of these systems are tampered with, without a license...
     
  7. JeffC

    JeffC New Member

    Messages:
    1,087
    Likes Received:
    6
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2014
    This is a shocking statement to me. Failing to use your brakes or steering properly puts others at risk as well. Are you surprised we don't need chauffeurs? Self driving cars? Is there a "certified mechanic" to work on my 50 year old vehicles? There are many, many accidents and fatalities each year from manufacturer's mistakes using certified mechanics and assemblers and engineers. Would another layer of bureaucracy fix that? One of the wonderful things about this country is our freedom. Freedom to fix or screw up MY stuff. Mechanics, plumbers and electricians don't lose work because I do all my own work. It's MY work. No one has a right to it. If I screw it up then I pay for it...personal responsibility. We have too many meaningless regulations that actually prevent good regulations from being observed/enforced. We don't need more.
     
  8. skeetercampsintexas

    skeetercampsintexas Active Member

    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Location:
    Wylie, Texas
    Computer controlled timing (i.e. conrolling the crank/camshaft correlation) Wheel speed sensors that output information to the PCM, windows that let the body control module know whether they're up or down, break wear sensors, bumper pistons (or so I call them) that when collapsed tell the airbag module to deploy, tire pressure monitor sensors, speed sensors in the tail shaft of the tranny or in the actual rear axle. No "chunk of metal" is uncontrolled anymore, not even the chassis which has so many ground cables attached that if any one of them were disconnected it could shut you down entirely. This theory is totally debunked. If an automaker wanted to claim DCMA rights then they wouldn't allow you to touch your vehicle due to the fact that THEY wrote the software that controls every single part of your vehicle, from bumper to bumper. I could see them giving you the courtesy of purchasing your own set of tires. Brakes, nope. There would be a certain way to reinstall new brake wear sensors that only a "certified" mechanic could perform. Do you honestly believe that if they had a way to FORCE you to spend money in THEIR bays that they would allow you to work on your own vehicle when they could be raking in the dough?? [LOL] welcome to corporate run America.
     
  9. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,401
    Likes Received:
    817
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Location:
    Mass
    Doesn't the free market control all of this. If a car manufacturer wants to make a car that is impossible to work on , that is their choice. You do not have to buy the car. The government should not be allowed to tell a manufacturer how to make their product.
     
  10. skeetercampsintexas

    skeetercampsintexas Active Member

    Messages:
    1,759
    Likes Received:
    25
    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2012
    Location:
    Wylie, Texas
    I do agree with you. No one HAS to buy the product that you aren't allowed to touch. Putting it in pupper perspective, what would happen if forest river, for example, told everyone looking at new campers that they weren't allowed to perform any mods on their pup because they don't "own" it, they simply are "borrowing it" for money. People here would be outraged. It's simply ridiculous to say if someone wants to buy something they aren't allowed to modify it to their liking. It all comes down tooney. I think we all know that these companies comply with safety standards because they have to, not because they really want to. Look at the GM ignition recall. Everyone has their thing, sure. Subaru is known for safety, not necessarily elegance. That's their thing. But to tell someone they can spend tens of thousands of dollars on something that isn't theirs, simply because that single statement can net your company more income is way our country has evolved into these days. Long gone are the days of caring about your customer for anything other than the almighty dollar residing in their bank account.
     
  11. daschnoz

    daschnoz Active Member

    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    56
    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    This doesn't bother me. If a company wants to go down the road of stupidity, the market will respond accordingly and the company will either back track or cease to be in a short period of time.

    What bothers me is:
    1. They are trying to use government to push their money making agenda
    2. There are people in government that are willing to go along with it. This is the one that really pi$$e$ me off. Our founding fathers are looking down on us, screaming at us - they would have started shooting by now.
     
  12. mckeapc67

    mckeapc67 New Member

    Messages:
    681
    Likes Received:
    3
    Joined:
    Feb 22, 2011
    Nice choice of car!! I'm currently working on restoring a '66 Mustang (289ci/3 sp auto). Also have a '72 waiting in line. I have a Facebook Page following the restoration (slow going). PM me if you want a link to it (Cooldad's Mustang Restorations).
     
  13. 1380ken

    1380ken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,401
    Likes Received:
    817
    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2013
    Location:
    Mass
    Ford has some nice fuel injected crate engines.
     
  14. jerbear

    jerbear Active Member

    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    57
    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Location:
    Indiana
    well I useually do my own service on my vehicle but one time I went to an ACDelco service center for an oil change and several days later I was leaking oil because the guy didn't tighten my oil filter . I thought ,"That's It!' never again.
     
  15. SlickTrick

    SlickTrick New Member

    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Jul 3, 2015
    I take nothing to the Stealership, unless it is covered 100% under factory warranty such as a recall.

    I am more than capable of doing any work that needs being done on my TV, however there is just some work that I don't want to do.

    I run full synthetic, oil and a filter costs me roughly $40, for $50 I can get it all done at Costco, and they fill tires as needed, I get a "free" [;)] coffee, so it's worth the $10 to me to not have to crawl on the ground to do it myself. Brakes on the other hand, I do that my self, as with most other things that need doing.
     
  16. Novarich

    Novarich Active Member

    Messages:
    381
    Likes Received:
    42
    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2014
    The tampering with software issue I can understand as a safety point. Almost all major systems in your new vehicle have a link to your main ecu. Abs brakes ,traction control, etc. These systems must be untampered with to achieve the mileage and Emisions standards required. I believe this is aimed more toward the aftermarket equipment manufacturers. It is a huge market. If they try to enforce anything other than full ownership of a purchased vehicle it will have a large impact on new car sales and increase the leasing market. I do all my own repairs because I don't trust the workmanship of dealership " technicians". I have a great friend that educates me on the latest technology and loans me his specialized tools when I need them. But the average joe doesn't have the resources or time to take care of their own newer computer controlled vehicle. They will feel they are being held hostage and will have to conform to whatever is offered them. This would not be acceptable to me.
     
  17. redneckgearhead

    redneckgearhead New Member

    Messages:
    375
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2015
    I've never seen a custom tuner touch abs, traction control or any other safety feature. They would have no need to and quite honestly the liability would be to great. I've had several cars/trucks with custom tunes installed, and in every aspect I've had an increase in performance AND fuel mileage. This is about shutting down the mechanics that do not pay the automaker for the license. The auto makers believe they've duped enough people into believing that the cars of today are not to be worked on by the average person, that somehow the ICE has evolved into a complex machine that the average mechanic can't figure out.
     

Share This Page