Trailer instability

Discussion in 'Going to the DARK SIDE' started by A_LPopUp, Jan 5, 2015.

  1. A_LPopUp

    A_LPopUp Member

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    That's just the thing. Once we figure everything out with the trailer, we plan on taking it on long trips. Atlanta to PA, Yellowstone, Etc... It absolutely has to be stable when we go on trips. We can make it to the local campground slowly at about 55, but higher than that is a no-go right now.
     
  2. Ryanincc

    Ryanincc Truth is poetry. Most Americans do not like poetry

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    Do not heed silverfz's advice. Just because something CAN be done, doesn't mean it SHOULD be done.

    Thanks for replying A_LPopUp. Im really glad we didn't scare you off :)
     
  3. vagov

    vagov Well-Known Member

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    I tow my 2015 spree escape 196s with a grand cherokee. Yes it has a short wheel base also Compared to a pick up truck or larger suv. So i was hesitate before buying. But actually the tt only weighs slightly higher gvwr than my coleman utah pup. This was a strong selling point for me. The dealer actually had a bigger trailer. That my vechile could have easily handled well at least number wise. But i felt it was too much. I am glad i chose the smaller one. Single axle trailer, and 1300 lbs lighter dry weight. I also have a v8. , beefed up suspension, brakes, tow package And a wdh. With a v6 i would probally have walked away. My cherokee seems to handle the extra weight pretty good and i feel safe with it. I too take the advice from others here as good advice, or at least good criticism We are all here to help. One way or another. I wish you good luck. Changing or correcting your towing situation.
     
  4. flighht2k5

    flighht2k5 New Member

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    Are you sure its not 4600 gvw? I have a hard time believing a Kia weighs 4600 pounds.
     
  5. bigdad

    bigdad Active Member

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    This my TV 2004 Dodge Durango 4x4 and 2012 Light House 21FB
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Ryanincc

    Ryanincc Truth is poetry. Most Americans do not like poetry

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    Hey A_LPopUp, If you don't mind saying, Im just wondering if the dealer mis-led you on the weight of your Gulf Stream? It happens all the time although in your case, having a V6 with a 5K tow max, it's slightly surprises me if they did.
     
  7. A_LPopUp

    A_LPopUp Member

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    No, we bought it knowing that is was about 4k dry. We just got back from our inaugural trip, we packed lightly and we still found a bunch of stuff that we didn't use. Before we do anything drastic, we are going to go to a CAT scale and weigh it out to see just what the weight is.
     
  8. Old_Geezer

    Old_Geezer Well-Known Member

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    Not changing my thoughts / comments I have already stated about the combo in general...............One thing you could try, and may as well as its not going to hurt anything, is readjust the hitch so the trailer is nose down slightly. I wouldn't say that if you had torsion axles, but that just may help it a little. It could make it worse though due to the light weight and rear suspension design of the Kia. I have found a nose down attitude to be better more often than not. I don't want to re-start the torsion/conventional axle debate all over again. Your Gulfstream is conventional I believe. By all means keep adjusting if you think its even remotely possible the WDH can help it. I'd also try adjusting the head angle in small amounts, essentially adding and reducing load on the spring bars / changing the overall WDH. There are some older threads over at RV forum.net about the Borrego but it still does not change my opinion about the overall combo. Ultimately that's your decision A_L.

    Bigdad, apples to oranges.
    You have a 7' wide 9' high trailer @ 4000 GVWR and the OP has an 8' wide 10-6 high @ 6000 GVWR +.
    The additional 14-16 sq ft of frontal area could be making a huge difference and the weight difference is a huge factor.

    I think thats correct 2k5, looked it up at Edmunds or somewhere.
     
  9. A_LPopUp

    A_LPopUp Member

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    Yes, the Borrego is a full body-on-frame type SUV.
     
  10. Ryanincc

    Ryanincc Truth is poetry. Most Americans do not like poetry

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    Pretty ambitious with a V6, 5K tow cap even with a dry weight around 4K :) . The dry weights aren't a real number anyway. That's the weight as it leaves the factory and doesn't include options like propane tanks, awnings, batteries, AC and other options that the dealer installs. The towing capacity of your TV also includes everything in or on your TV like passengers and gear. A family of 4 could easily weigh 800 lbs including luggage and gear in the cargo area, taking away that weight from what you can tow. I see a V8 in your future [:D] or a lighter trailer. Good Luck!
     
  11. silverfz

    silverfz Active Member

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    Ryanincc . Fyi the sticker weight is as it ready to leave the factory. It usually the correct one. It include every option as ordered by the dealer. Like my TT as per borchure weighs 6890 lbs and the sticker indicated 6333. I was surprised the final weight was actually is a 6500 with the propane filled with some tools and some stuff I moved from the pup after pickup. Reason the dealer gets all his RV with electric jack from factory and only fills propane at site . The dealer added options where all factory options.

    unless u find a odd dealer who like to spend 150 $ plus an hr labor to install a electric jack when its a 80$ option at the factory or orders a RV with no awnings so he can install it at the dealership , or even an ac . The sticker is ready to go weight which includes battery . As per dealer they disconnect them as soon as they are received.

    my TT passed a 169 pdi check at the factory. It will fail if all the parts are missing.
     
  12. Snow

    Snow Well-Known Member

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    The "as shipped" weight is only used by a few manufactures and then is only used on a few TT's and 5'ers.. The sticker on the side of the trailer still only lists the dry weight and the GVWR weight.. The shipped weight is generally a sticker inside a cabinet which not only lists the shipped weight but also the weights of the propane tanks, battery as well as what the revised CCC is then it subtracts things like full water,grey and black tanks ...

    As many of us here and many on other camping forums have stated, use the GVWR as a guide ...
     
  13. Old_Geezer

    Old_Geezer Well-Known Member

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    silverfz, I wouldn't put very much faith in that 169 point inspection. Its typical sales brochure RV industry B.S.

    Snow, does your Outback have an actual as shipped weight? I have not seen one on my Passport. I know on the 2011 Aerolite we had it and all the Aerolites / Kodiaks / Colemans (all from Thors Dutchmen division) are individually weighed before leaving the factory. They have a sticker beside the entry door on the outside with the weight marked with a sharpie. I remember the guys name, Gerry Byrd. Gerry was a weighing fanatic, seen his name all over the place looking at campers [LOL]

    That weight included the empty LPG tanks which the manufacturer provides, but not the battery which is usually dealer provided.
     
  14. Snow

    Snow Well-Known Member

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    It has a sticker inside one of the cabinet doors that lists the dry weight, the CCC of the trailer. Then below those it lists things like the weight of the propane tanks (empty and full) weight of the battery (Think it gives a range of like 50-70 lbs), lists the capacities of the tanks plus weight when full and may even list a couple other things.. The way the list is laid out it subtracts the weights from the CCC and at the bottom it gives a revised CCC (this is how much junk you can add) and then lists the as shipped weight..

    To my knowledge Keystone is one of only a few manufactures who do this.. When we were looking at TT's, the dealer we were at (was recommended by many of our camping friends) had their sales professionals out walking the lot (this is about the only time I'll call them sales professionals and not sales droids as these guys not only sell the products, they also camp in them), One salesman saw me looking at the GVWR of the trailer and came over to show us the as shipped weight and explained everything about it...
     
  15. Old_Geezer

    Old_Geezer Well-Known Member

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    This morning I trudged across the Tundra with a flashlight and unzipped the cover ..... went looking for that elusive sticker.
    I don't have one in the 2013 Keystone Passport. Not really surprised. Maybe they do that on the Outbacks and not the Passports. Keystone's brands are kept fairly separate, like their own companies, not really standardized between brands. Or maybe that policy went by the wayside in the recession as a cost cutting measure....who knows. I'll be looking at the Pittsburgh RV show if I head down there.
     
  16. Snow

    Snow Well-Known Member

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    With yours being newer then mine, it might be listed on the outside sticker.. I've seen them stuck to the bottom of drawers as well, can't remember the Keystone brand, but it seamed strange to be on a drawer bottom ...
     
  17. tenttrailer

    tenttrailer Art & Joyce - Columbus, O

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    That sticker on the inside cabinet does not include the battery that dealers adds or the 40 lbs for the propane in the tanks, or any options or extras that the dealer added. It just as it left the plant. So add 100+ LBS to that sticker's dry weight on the cabinet door for the battery and propane.

    Most of the time the weight that the trailer has as dry weigh on the outside sticker does not include any options and the battery the dealer adds. So you need to add the AC unit, Awning, battery, 40 lbs for the propane in the tanks, maybe the spare tire, etc... I always add about 500 lbs for the options. By the time you add water in the water heater and maybe the water tank you added 8 lbs per gallon adding another 250 to 400 lbs. Then you add another 150 lbs for your drain hose, water hoses extra electrical cord, plug adapters, tire iron, jack, basic tool set, out side rug, 2 outside chairs.

    You would be amazed how much stuff you pack in a camper if you set it all to the side and check the weight. We pack very light. Just for our personal stuff, food, cooking things, bedding, games, flashlights, small outside grill, etc.., for a 10 day trip we carry about 300-500 lbs. We use to be around 600 to 800 lbs but over the years we reduced the things we never used.

    Without water in the tanks. , I always figure I'm at plus 1,000 lbs from the dry weight on the sticker on the side of the camper. And we pack light. This is due to the options the factory added, the battery added by the dealer, propane, and our stuff we bring. If I bring fire wood I add 150 more lbs, Water I add 200 lbs for 20 gallons in the tanks and 6 gallons in the water tank.
     
  18. Snow

    Snow Well-Known Member

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    Sticker inside our cabinet lists the propane tanks full as well as empty and gives a range for the battery ... and gives the "as shipped weight" ... Next time I'm near the storage lot, I'll try and get to the trailer and get a pic of the inside sticker ..
     
  19. tenttrailer

    tenttrailer Art & Joyce - Columbus, O

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    That must be new. I did not even check my sticker on our current camper. I've gotten to the point of just weighing the camper when I get it. And it's always a surprise!
     
  20. silverfz

    silverfz Active Member

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    Agree, mine was close to 400 lbs lighter than the brochure the dealer gave me said it was.
     

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