Water tank size concerns

Discussion in 'A-Frame PopUps' started by Lost in Space, Aug 18, 2019.

  1. gladecreekwy

    gladecreekwy Well-Known Member

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    How could it possibly be your fault? Because you turned it on? Has to be a fire hazard. If it’s 217 on the outside how hot is it inside?
     
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  2. jadmt

    jadmt Member

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    aiming at the cover top (you can see the red dot) after only a few minutes.
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. gladecreekwy

    gladecreekwy Well-Known Member

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    That side wall plywood underneath?
     
  4. jadmt

    jadmt Member

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    no it is fiberglass panels laminated over foam. the foam looks like foam used in a foam cooler.
     
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  5. _WW_

    _WW_ Member

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    I haven't had that problem in my Chalet with the camper melting. I have also set the hot water tank to it's lowest setting.
     
  6. Lost in Space

    Lost in Space Active Member

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    Is that from the heat inside of the unit heating the wall from inside or from the heat coming out of the out of the grate on the door. I can see it being fairly easy to manufacture a vent to move the heat a couple inches away from the camper walls.
    My current pop up, a Palomino Pony with an 8 ft box, has a 15 gallon water tank that is under the floor and wraps up and over the axle. I didn't realize until yesterday that Aliners take up so much storage space by putting the water tank inside the camper. No wonder it's only 11 gallons.
     
  7. Toedtoes

    Toedtoes Well-Known Member

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    There is no reason it should be MELTING the wall - that is poor workanship. Yes, the wall and door of the water heater will get hot - it's a large flame. However, the wall around it should be built to withstand that heat.
     
  8. Econ

    Econ Well-Known Member

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    <<<my ranger 12 with dual tanks and battery has a tongue weight of 265 which is like 100lbs more than Aliner claims.>>>

    My tongue weight is roughly 120 pounds more than advertised with full propane tanks. 80 with empty tanks.

    Possible reason: Using extremely sloppy math, an Expedition with 16 gallons of water being towed could increase tongue weight demands by 13 to 20 pounds. Plus add for safety margin. They probably want a heavy tongue as the drivers aren't used to pulling a trailer every day. Plus smaller vehicles have lower tongue weight limits.

    Another thought on a 26 gallon tank. 26 gallons X 8.33 = 217 pounds. The Aliner water tank is in the rear about 3 foot forward of the rear bumper. Its several feet behind the axle (3?). Adding water adds weight. Adding to total weight increases tongue weight demands. Adding weight behind the axle lightens the tongue weight. The lighter the camper the more susceptible tongue weight is to small weight increases behind the axle. Decreasing tongue weight could possibly cause total tongue weight to go below the 10 to 15% recommendation. Aliner gets sued because they put too big of a water tank in allowing Joe camper to fill it changing the tongue weight causing loss of control while towing. I would rather carry portable jugs and put them right over the axle while towing.

    Secondly, the Forest River is 500 to 600 pounds heavier than an Expedition. My Expedition is getting marginal for an SUV in mountains ( I have a 3.5 litre engine). Aliner is more of a SUV camper. Forest River is getting closer to a pick up camper.

    Thirdly, what does the Ranger wall look like just above the water heater from the inside? Melting is caused by excessive heat. That could be caused by the lack of air circulation on the inside. I assume you have a sofa bed and the water heater is underneath that in the confined space with no circulation.
     
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  9. jadmt

    jadmt Member

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    wall on the inside is unaffected and there is no heat build up on the inside the tank itself is well insulated and you do not feel heat on the inside from the vent.

    I called Aliner yesterday and they are sending piece of diamond plate to glue over the wall directly above the vent and a small baffle to to rivet on top of the original baffle to extend the baffle and they also recommend checking to make sure there was enough silicon placed around the shroud. The warranty person was nice and said they have had this problem on some and it won't/shouldn't get any worse. Their fix is the piece of aluminum diamond plate glued to the side of the camper directly over the vent and extending the baffle 1/4". That does seem like a more reasonable solution than sending it back to have the entire wall replaced. I would not trust a local shop to replace the wall as you could end up with a whole new can of worms. I have no aliner dealers close to me so none of the RV shops are familiar with them.
     
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  10. jadmt

    jadmt Member

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    Agree 100% poor quality for the money no doubt.
     
  11. Econ

    Econ Well-Known Member

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    We looked at an used Aliner that had a tree branch fall on it while it was for sale. The concerns were the gelcoat on the repairs would not match. A repair facility suggested we glue a vent cap over the repair that would look normal.
     
  12. Lost in Space

    Lost in Space Active Member

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    I was thinking exactly that about extending the baffle to move the air away from the side a little. But I think I would go more like an inch. But perhaps with the diamond plate 1/4" might be enough.
    I think I will be buying a 2019 Expedition this weekend. The extended baffle will likely be my first mod. A preventative one.
     
  13. Lost in Space

    Lost in Space Active Member

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    Regarding the statement that your tongue weight is "100 lbs more than Aliner claims." That's not true at all. Aliner lists the tongue weight as "dry tongue weight", that is the weight with nothing on it. They can not know if you are going to add one or two propane tanks, or one or two batteries, or what size batteries, or if you are going to stick a bicycle rack on the tongue. It's up to you to figure out the additional weight you are going to add to the unloaded weight they give you.
     
  14. jmkay1

    jmkay1 2004 Fleetwood/Coleman Utah

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    . That is very true, but sadly a lot of dealers try and "trick" people into believing dry weight is true weight. So many unsuspecting people believe them. My family fell for this trick when we bought our first popup 20 years ago. We assumed RV dealers knew what they were doing. We were very wrong. I now do my research.
     
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  15. Econ

    Econ Well-Known Member

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    Technically you are right and I applaud your attention to detail and as a person who looks beyond the surface. But not everyone appreciates physics nor is mechanically adapted. Also there is a lot of newbee campers out there who need the benefit of a mentor. They see a tongue weight listed and that is the weight. The battery not included never enters their mind. They then compare the dry tongue weight to there car's tongue weight rating and end up putting an Expedition on a Ford escape and wonder why it sags. The dry tongue weight on the brochure doesnt have a footnote saying what "normal items" it doesnt include. Everyone has a battery on the tongue and most assume it is included. Again, your attention to detail is applauded but you ain't normal <<GGG>>>
     
  16. Lost in Space

    Lost in Space Active Member

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    You've been talking to my wife...lol
     
  17. Lost in Space

    Lost in Space Active Member

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    You also cannot just add the full weight of anything you add onto the tongue of a camper as additional tongue weight. Anything added to the camper tongue distributes its weight between the tongue and the axle. The farther up front towards the hitch something is, the greater the percentage of its weight is added to the tongue weight. The further away it is from the hitch, it will have a somewhat smaller affect on the tongue weight. And as others have said anything added behind the axle will also offset some of the weight loaded in front of the axle.
    The point is that the only weigh to know your actual tongue weight is to weigh your fully loaded camper's tongue on a scale. There are posts elsewhere on the site that can explain a couple different ways to do that.I encourage everyone to do this at some point so they have real numbers to work with. Knowledge is empowering!
     
  18. Econ

    Econ Well-Known Member

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    <<<<<You've been talking to my wife...lol>>>>

    I do not pay much attention anymore as my wife frequently keeps me well informed as to my sanity and normalcy. She apparently monitors my IQ too. Takes a load off me not having to worry about all those. She was asked what did she expect when she dated someone with a T Shirt with "Space Kadett" printed on the back.

    Benjamin Franklin on Marriage. "Keep your eyes and ears wide open before marriage and half closed after."

    Have been studying tongue weight a great deal. The plan is after I finish "improving" the previous owner's ideas and then implement all of my wife's improvements, I will weigh for total weight and tongue. Neighbor's friend owns a wood yard so unlimited weighings.

    Long ago a vendor loaded a utility trailer I had borrowed about 50/50 on the axle. First time it hit 60 MPH it was a wild ride. How it recovered I'll never know. A ride that will never be forgotten.

    PS: Googled Space Kadett to make sure it hasnt picked up any bad meanings in the past 50 years. Amazing it is still in use.
     
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  19. Lost in Space

    Lost in Space Active Member

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    I have utilized the "Space Cadet" moniker frequently over the years. I had considered that for my "handle" on this site, but it was already taken back in 2007.
     
  20. jadmt

    jadmt Member

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    you can not go more than about a 1/4" or you will not be able to close the cover. It is a poorly designed set up.
     

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