what causes this?

Discussion in 'Tires / Brakes / Bearings / Axles' started by autom16, May 30, 2016.

  1. autom16

    autom16 New Member

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    Help!
    We just got home from a 176 mile (one way) trip and I was checking the lug tightness when I find 3 bolts loose, 1 sheared off and 1 missing completely, this is on a 99 Coleman Bayside (on the road side). These are new wheels and tires, original lug nuts. Could the lugs have been too loose? I tightened them by hand and then with a 4 way...tight...Sabotage? Ive NEVER seen this happen before.

    Notice two of the holes seem to be elongated, I'm now shopping for a new wheel, lug nuts and lug screws.

    I'm glad we made it home without an accident at highway speeds (never went over 65). I feel physically ill that my family could have been hurt. We are supposed to go away in 2 weeks again another 200 mile trip. Any solutions so this doesn't happen again?
     

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  2. terry1419

    terry1419 Active Member

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    It is usually recommended to check lug nuts frequently on new wheels, maybe the first 25 and then at every 50 miles or so a few times. Then check before every trip. It is not uncommon to have them loosen. There are torque requirements that many of us follow and many of us probably do not. I have a torque wrench but rarely use it. After working on cars as a hobby and changing and rotating tires for over 50 years, I can come pretty close to a torque requirement with a 4 way. I have double checked with a torque wrench to verify. I do check mine regularly.
     
  3. barnee

    barnee New Member

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    Thanks to your guardian angle that no one hurt in an accident. Get a torque wrench and torque the lug nuts to 90 lbs after replacing a wheel and stop on your first travel at 15 miles and retourque and again at 25 miles retourque again.
     
  4. Dubbya

    Dubbya Wherever you go, there you are...

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    Unless you're an absolute jerk, I'd forget about sabotage. [LOL] [LOL] [LOL] [LOL]

    It only takes one loose lug nut or a broken stud to start the process whereby the wheel starts wobbling until all the lug nuts are loose. Luckily, you caught yours in time.

    They require 200 foot lbs of torque, no more, no less, and that's often hard to do with a wheel wrench. On the other hand, over-torquing or applying too much force to loosen seized lug nuts can crack studs. You may or may not hear the stud crack so you tighten up the lug nuts, hook up and head out. While traveling, you hit a pothole and the stud breaks. At speed, the wheel shimmies and vibrates, loosening the other lug nuts. You may or may not notice it at all will all the road noise.

    I've seen this happen on cars and trucks too and it's always been after servicing the wheel bearings or changing a flat. It's all part of the fun. Use a torque wrench.
     
  5. Winchested

    Winchested Member

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    Ya really a $40 buck 1/2 torque wrench and deep socket is a life saver literally.

    Throw grandpa's 4 way in the garbage and never look back.

    200 ft lbs? Wrong. 1/2 90-100 ft lbs. 9/16 Max 120-150.
     
  6. 300Z

    300Z Member

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    Yeah I also have forearm torque wrench but when it comes to wheels I like to use a torque wrench to make sure. Never had a problem with lug nuts loosening. I think you did not have them tight enough. I also put a dab OT anti seaze on the stud to keep them from rusting and making removal easier
     
  7. 300Z

    300Z Member

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    200 ft lbs, really on what wheels?
     
  8. Yak

    Yak Well-Known Member

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    I'm wondering also
     
  9. Snow

    Snow Well-Known Member

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    A Boeing 767 is only 175ft lbs on it's axle nut ...
     
  10. dion

    dion Member

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    Note that too much torque is equally as dangerous as too little. Too much torque will tend to pull on the bolt too much, and the added stress of road bumps and such can cause the overstressed bolt to snap in two. Once the bolt shears off, it's not doing its job of holding the wheel on.

    You don't necessarily need the best super-precise torque wrench -- it's ok to be a few percent off. But don't just guess. A beam-type torque wrench is cheap and simple, and is much better than just "let's get those bolts as tight as we can get them".
     
  11. Dubbya

    Dubbya Wherever you go, there you are...

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    Well, crap, I made a mistake! Chalk it up to force of habit in torquing lug nuts on the tractor/trailer wheels.

    My camper manual says 85-95 ft lbs then check them every 50 miles for the first 200 miles. (Seems a little excessive...) Whatever, RTM! [RTM]
     
  12. edh

    edh Active Member

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    The anti-seize is key, a small but important investment. I have never used a torque wrench on a wheel and have never had one come loose, but using a torque wrench is sound advice.

    (I just snapped a stud changing a tire on my son's Scion. Lug bolts were on so tight I had to use a breaker bar to free them. Do not ever let anyone tell you they can use and air wrench and not over-torque something...for wheels ALWAYS INSIST that they use anti-seize and then hand-torque!)
     
  13. generok

    generok Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm. Did you notice any vibrations on the way out? Are you sure the hole for the hub is the right size? You can get a rim with a tight hub hole and it doesn't seat flat on the hub flange. The lug nuts will tighten up tight, but the wheel/tire ends up with a slight wobble that will eventually wear out the holes on the hub and snap the studs.

    Glad nobody was hurt and you made it home.
     
  14. 300Z

    300Z Member

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    Ok well that makes sense 200 ft lbs for a tractor trailer. And your not getting those off with a 4 way.
     
  15. Yak

    Yak Well-Known Member

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    "The age-old practice of using anti-seize compounds as wheel system lubricants has never been approved or endorsed by a wheel, hub or fastener manufacturer"

    From here
    http://fleetowner.com/equipment/tiretracks/fleet_debunking_myth

    I know it's a heavy truck site but it's the same for auto manufacturers


    From the Ford shop manual


    NOTICE: Make sure to apply a thin coat of anti-seize lubrication only to the interface between the wheel pilot bore and the hub pilot. Do not allow the anti-seize to make contact with the wheel-to-brake disc/drum mounting surface, wheel studs, wheel nuts, brake pads or brake disc friction surfaces or damage to components may occur.
     
  16. wl7cpa

    wl7cpa New Member

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    I'm leaving for Wyoming Saturday so glad to run across this advice, which means as soon as the rain stops I'll be out with my torque wrench set at 90 pounds. Thanks all!
     
  17. Yak

    Yak Well-Known Member

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  18. kitphantom

    kitphantom Well-Known Member

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    We learned the hard way that it is a good idea to check the lug nuts after tire changes. Having a tire fly off of our first pup, on the interstate, is one experience that I don't need to have again.
    With both pups, the logs bugs were usually secure on the bird ch dk. With the TT, we still do three checks, and an occasional one, but they're good on the second check.
     
  19. Yak

    Yak Well-Known Member

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    Translation please
     
  20. 300Z

    300Z Member

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