What if gas stays high?

Discussion in 'Tow Vehicles, Hitch & Towing' started by ktn, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. Oldtimer69

    Oldtimer69 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    June used to be the busy month for the state parks. Does anybody have a reading on crowds at the parks this year? Is everyone still camping but just staying close to home? When I go for a week or more, I like the more remote locations because the crowds are generally less. Usually I wait til mid July thru August to go camping because the parks are not near full (during the week). And I'm able to pick some good sites.

    Tony
    99 Dodge Ram
    (2000 Coleman Seapine - sold)
    Homebuilt Tent Camper Project
     
  2. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    http://www.rigzone.com/news/article.asp?a_id=63603

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  3. Oldtimer69

    Oldtimer69 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Hi KTN ............... Oldtimer here

    Yes, the USA has access to lots of Natural Energy. Seems politics is keeping us from using it tho. I've recently read about the Oil Shales in Colorado and Wyoming, and subsurface in Montana and North Dakota too. Why can't we have these drilled or otherwise tapped and processed??

    Here in Texas we have a strip of near surface Lignite (soft Brown Coal) that is strip mined by huge machines. Its used to feed Electeical Power Plants. This strip is several hundered miles long by maybe 10 miles wide. I've seen these open strip mines. After the lignite layer is removed, the big machines move on. And then the bulldozers fill in and restore the surface cover. Plant trees too. After a few years the place looks better than new.

    So there is No good excuse for people to be against these energy industries. IMHO...

    Tony
    99 Dodge Ram
    (2000 Coleman Seapine - sold)
    Homebuilt Tent Camper Project
     
  4. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    I agree.....

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  5. hvac1877

    hvac1877 Old Dominion Iron Chefs Highland Springs, Va

    Messages:
    2,891
    Likes Received:
    45
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2008
    Location:
    Highland Springs Va
    only thing is i don't believe in drilling in Alaska national park. It was set aside for a reason!!!!!! A place of untouched nature. I will never give up my truck. i am cutting back on driving it and doing more side work for my fun times.

    Peter & Amy,2008 2407 starcraft <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_pu.gif border=0 align=middle alt="PopUp">, 2003 dodge ram quad cab 4X4 <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_suv.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Tow Vehicle"> 08 nights <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_camping.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Camping"> -8
     
  6. Bummer72

    Bummer72 Lancaster, PA

    Messages:
    731
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2006
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    When I paid my camper storage space bill yesterday, the woman at the desk asked me if I've been getting out with the camper much this year.

    I said, "Of course."

    She said all the other Puppers in the lot said the same thing, but the folks with the big rigs have said they either aren't going as far or as often this year b/c of the fuel prices.

    I chuckled and said that I havn't changed any plans because of the $$ of gas, because 1) pop ups are a very economical way to vacation, especially if you visit the state/fed parks, and 2) b/c the extra amount of gas I use is not really that much.

    If I'd be going hundreds of miles, however, it would be a different story... For example, in April I spent $200 on gas towing my Pup from PA to MA (Cape Cod) which was around 850 miles round trip.

    Doug Rice, Lancaster PA <img src=../Images/flags/us.gif border=0 align=middle alt="United States"><img src=../Images/flags/us-coastguard.jpg border=0 align=middle alt="US Coast Guard"> <> DW Heather, M.Div. <> DS Andrew <> DS Benjamin
    Nights Camped in 2008: 12
     
  7. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Next time you take a trip to ANWR to camp and enjoy the beauty, give me a shout!

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  8. Digger

    Digger Foothills of Central Virginia

    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Location:
    Foothills of Central Virginia
    The portion of ANWR that is being considered for oil exploration <i>was</i> set aside for oil exploration when the reserve was created. I have had it explained that if you took a quarter and dropped it on a 9'x12' carpet, that is a comparable ratio to the area set aside for exploration in ANWR.

    We have allowed ourselves to reach a point where, due to impossibly restrictive regulations we haven't increased our energy producing/refining infrastructure in greater than 30 years, while our demands have increased dramatically. Further delay in moving forward will compund this problem exponentially. Starting today, it would be nearly a decade before we can get any significant return from infrastructure investment.

    Obviously, we need to develop new methods of producing energy, but we will not be able to solely rely on that avenue for a lot longer than a decade. The only answer that protects what we can of our way of life is to allow exploration and recovery of <i>our</i> resources....while moving forward on other fronts as well....we cannot allow the mistakes of the past 30 years to be compounded any longer....IMHO, of course....

    [/rant]

    ~Cheers~ <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_beer.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Cold Beer"> Ðigger
    '04 Fleetwood Westlake (StonyBlue)/'02 Ford E-150
    2008 nights camping: PUP - 13

    Edited by - Digger on July 04 2008 23:12:45
     
  9. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    Digger - excellent [/rant]

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  10. Michel

    Michel Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    An interesting source of fuel in the future may well be algae. Compared to corn, algae grows much faster and can produce much larger quantities of oil than corn's ethanol. The challenge facing researchers is how to best convert the algae into biodiesel. Here is an example of one company working with algae to produce fuel: http://www.technologyreview.com/Biztech/20319/page1/

    Edited by - Michel on July 05 2008 00:08:41
     
  11. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    "Greenfuel Technologies of Cambridge, Massachusetts, and several other companies, are working to develop a commercial process to produce ethanol, jet fuel, and biodiesel from different strains of Green Algae. They predict that Green Algae can produce 5,000 gallons of fuel per acre, per year, grown in water tanks. This is five times the productivity of Switchgrass, which makes it by far the best option for biofuel, when, or if, it can be produced on a sufficiently large scale.

    To replace our petroleum with Algae fuels would only require 1/5 the area of Switchgrass, or about 114,000 square miles. This would require an Algae farm only 100 miles wide by 1,140 miles long, less than half the size of Texas, a little smaller than California, almost exactly the size of Arizona. So, I ask, where are we going to build a Green Algae factory with millions of water tanks growing algae for fuel, the size of Arizona? Assuming the tanks are filled three feet deep with water, where is that 219,000,000 acre feet of water going to come from? Enough water to flood the entire state of Arizona three feet deep.

    And what will be the environmental impact of building an Algae Fuel Factory that covers 114,000 square miles? That would be the biggest industrial project in history, by far, consuming billions of tons of concrete and steel for tanks and pipes, and paving over a block of sensitive wildlife habitat the size of, well, Arizona, which would doubtless cause the extinction of dozens, maybe hundreds of species of plants and animals with a limited range, in flagrant violation of the Endangered Species Act. Will the Sierra Club demand an Environmental Impact Report?

    Well, if we can't drill, we better get started. If we build a thousand square miles of Algae Factory each year, starting now, we can be done by 2022."

    - Raymond S. Kraft

    http://www.newmediajournal.us/staff/kraft/r_kraft.htm

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  12. Michel

    Michel Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    This from the Washington Post: "'If you replaced all the diesel in the U.S. with soy biodiesel, it would take half the land mass of the U.S. to grow those soybeans,' says Matt Caspari, chief executive of Aurora Biofuels, a Berkeley, Calif.-based private firm that specializes in algae oil technology. On the other hand, the Energy Department estimates that if algae fuel replaced all the petroleum fuel in the United States, it would require 15,000 square miles, which is a few thousand miles larger than Maryland." Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/03/AR2008010303907.html.

    What is 15,000 square miles? As a point of comparison Canada is 3.5 MILLION square miles. If your Department of Energy is correct, I am sure we could spare 15,000 square miles to produce the biofuel to meet your needs ;)

    The challenge of course is developing the technology to convert algal oils into fuel.
     
  13. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    No, I think the challenge is filling Maryland and part of Pennsylvania three feet deep with water!

    Think on this, think on the fact that we don't want to drill off shore because of environmental consequences but we will fill something between 15,000 and 114,000 square miles up with a concrete container and three feet of water!

    We use oil and natural gas because they are by far the most efficient and environmentally friendly sources of energy (for the energy produced) the world has ever known.

    Wind = we would have to plant giant wind turbines like grass everywhere in the country to generate appropriate energy amounts.

    Soy, corn, algae....

    not happening or going to happen in anything like the volume required.

    I am just frustrated by a nation which seems to be taken in by fantasy solutions. We used to solve problems in this country, now we seem to think filling up Maryland with three feet of water is going to happen AND solve our energy problems.

    Not to mention since when did the DoE become such a reliable scientific source. I will buy into others numbers that it is a much larger space required (not that we will ever fill Maryland up with three feet of water, we won't).

    We have fossil fuels and we have nuclear as solutions we can execute on for the next number of decades. Perhaps hydrogen but the only method of producing hydrogen in quantities required for our economy is via the building of a lot more nuclear plants.

    So there you have it: drill or split atoms.

    Make a choice, but lets solve a problem with something we can do. Filling Maryland (or Arizona) up with three feet of water ain't gonna be happening.

    My rant for the night.....

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  14. Michel

    Michel Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    Maybe, but we are filling up huge ponds of toxic water in northern Alberta to create oil that is shipped to American markets. Also, if you dam a river, you flood much larger territories with much deeper water. In the James Bay, reservoirs covering 6,000 square miles were created for the production of electricity.

    I am not saying that algae is the solution, but we will have to look at all the potential sources of fuel. However, I would say that it would be more efficient to look at algae and other alternatives as opposed to growing corn for ethanol that is pushing food prices up and providing little in the way of extra energy.
     
  15. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    I would reiterate, nothing is as efficient or environmentally friendly as fossil fuels for the energy produced.

    When you look at the environmental disaster all of these other potential solutions would require in order to replace or augment fossil fuels in any meaningful way, oil looks down right green.

    Personally, I love the tar sands of Alberta. Enough oil there for the U.S. and Canada for the next fifty years.

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  16. Digger

    Digger Foothills of Central Virginia

    Messages:
    2,806
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2007
    Location:
    Foothills of Central Virginia
    For one reason we should create a small test area to flood for the creation of an algae farm....I nominate Washington, DC <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Big Smile">

    ~Cheers~ <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_beer.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Cold Beer"> Ðigger
    '04 Fleetwood Westlake (StonyBlue)/'02 Ford E-150
    2008 nights camping: PUP - 13
     
  17. Michel

    Michel Member

    Messages:
    122
    Likes Received:
    2
    Joined:
    May 14, 2008
    LOL. Well, there is certainly enough hot air and BS coming out of Washington to keep the algae healthy and well fed ;)
     
  18. ktn

    ktn New Member

    Messages:
    221
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2007
    D.C. was originally swampland, so the conversion should be relatively inexpensive....

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283

    Edited by - ktn on July 05 2008 02:25:13
     
  19. Oldtimer69

    Oldtimer69 New Member

    Messages:
    68
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2006
    Hi All .............. Oldtimer here

    Love the discussion. Solutions to our energy needs sorely needed. Sending our cash to other nations for Oil that we could be paying our own countrymen for is Very foolish. These other countries are then using our money we paid to buy our Land, and our buildings, and our industries too. I've seen videos on youtube of Saudi 'wealthy men in white robes' using Rolls-Royses as Dune Buggies and having a hoot of a time. There was something about that picture that didn't sit well with me.

    We need to Drill Now. Our Oilmen are really the Good guys. Lets quit beating up on them - please.

    Tony
    99 Dodge Ram
    (2000 Coleman Seapine - sold)
    Homebuilt Tent Camper Project
     
  20. bmkroll

    bmkroll New Member

    Messages:
    25
    Likes Received:
    1
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2008
    We have cut back in other areas to make up for the high gas prices.

    The average American has been use to spend, spend spend and has not been smart with their finances.

    If you get rid of your credit cards, trash tv, fast food and shop smart, you'll have enough money to camp.

    We also have lost sight of the benefits of living off the land. Grow your own garden. Raise some chickens and fish. Those $10-15 meals you buy from Wal-mart suddenly only cost you $2 if you produce it all yourself.

    - 1998 Coleman Westlake
    - 2004 Chevrolet Suburban
    My Used Tent Trailer Site
     

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.