What if gas stays high?

Discussion in 'Tow Vehicles, Hitch & Towing' started by ktn, Jun 3, 2008.

  1. Oldtimer69

    Oldtimer69 New Member

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    Two Summers ago, I camped for a few days at Boiling Springs SP near Woodward Oklahoma. Park ranger told me about a huge Wind Farm located a few miles North, Next day, I drove out for a look see. Sure enough, those big propellers were sticking up into the sky everywhere. Interesting to watch in operation. And no, the propellers turn too slow to likely hit any birds flying around. Its worth a look if you are ever in the area. I was taking a different route home from Colorado hi-country camping and decided to check out Boiling Springs SP.

    But wind energy wont replace oil. Wont even replace oil powered electrical generating plants. You know, the wind is unpredictable and doesn't blow all the time. So the oil-gas fired generating plants are still going to have to be there, and up and running - even if only on standby. Maybe we can figure out how to use the wind turbine energy and Solar energy to 'crack' Water, to turn that into Oxygen and Hydrogen (reverse H2O). Surely we can find a safe way to store Hydrogen and oxygen.

    Wind can help - but is not a solution.

    Tony
    99 Dodge Ram
    (2000 Coleman Seapine - sold)
    Homebuilt Tent Camper Project
     
  2. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    Let me try to respond to a number of these recent posts (without delving into politics, "just the facts ma'am")

    1) We are not running out of oil. The oil sands in Alberta contain at least a 50 year supply, oil shale right here in Colorado is believed to be a 400 year supply. We have to go get it!

    2) I do not think oil companies are to blame, they are doing the job all of us who work in the private sector are engaged in doing, i.e. maximizing profits. There shareholders could and would sue them (and rightfully so) if they didn't do that!

    3) The core of the problem is supply and demand.

    4) Even if drilling in the U.S. did not bring down prices (which it would, see the "supply and demand" #3) it would be a huge advantage in that we would not be sending 2 TRILLION DOLLARS of our national wealth over seas each year. Keep that money here! That is simply destroying our dollar and costing us hundreds of thousands of jobs.

    5) We would have to plant windmills like grass all over this country to generate enough power to be meaningful.

    6) It takes about 3 years to get oil from a new field to market, not 30. Toss out the political rhetoric from those who oppose drilling and return to basic economics.

    7) If you are going to put substance in "government reports", you cannot pick and choose in accepting those that support what you want to believe and reject those that oppose what you believe.

    8) Like I said before, we have two possibilities for the foreseeable future, drill and split atoms. It would be great if we found something else. However anything else currently on the table (wind, biofuels, magic fairy dust) would be an unprecedented environmental disaster in its' own right. Which leads me, personally, to believe that those promoting methods other than nuclear and fossil fuels due to environmental concerns really are disingenuous or have not done there homework.

    9) Repeal stupid laws such as the law preventing foreign flagged vessels from making deliveries from one U.S. port directly to another U.S. port. What this means is that OUR oil from Alaska goes to Asia because it is ILLEGAL for it to go to Long Beach, California. Think on THAT one for a while, by law we (the good old U.S. of A.) are not receiving any of that Alaskan oil. But hey, we have to protect those non-existent union shipping jobs!

    10) Here is how much congress feels your pain: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25751775/

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  3. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    One more thing, the Chevy Volt is due to be on sale this fall, so a 100% electric car from GM in months.

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  4. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    Okay one more more thing.

    I really prefer this thread not to delve into partisan politics.

    That being said, I am very pro-drilling and pro-nuke,

    The reason I am pro-drilling and pro-nuke is that I see no other viable options on the table.

    I am not too interested in poverty and not too interested in my daughter having a dim economic and transportation future for her life.

    That being said, the facts are about 75% of Americans ( as shown in repeated recent polls) are pro-drilling and pro-nuke.

    Particular and specific politicians are extremely anti-drilling and anti-nuke and as such (IMHO) say things to defend a political position, things that then get repeated as fact. Things such as "30 years to get new oil to market" and "will only have a marginal effect on price" and "are not drilling on land they already have rights to".

    No offense intended to anyone, but these are simply not true and are political self-defense statements not facts. Energy prices are now the single most significant issue to American voters and some politicians have 75% of those voters thinking that these politicians are in error on there opinion and voting record on these topics. These particular politicos are saying things to try not to get scalped over this issue in November.

    That is not the same as a fact.

    Like Ronald Reagan used to say, "Everyone is entitled to there own opinion, no one is entitled to there own facts."

    Lets double check our facts before posting and make sure we are not just repeating dubious political self-defense as fact.

    I really want this thread to be productive because I think this topic is near and dear to all of us and to all of our futures as pup owners (not to mention vital to the future of our children in general!).

    Thanks!

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  5. hvac1877

    hvac1877 Old Dominion Iron Chefs Highland Springs, Va

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    Using that poll is no use. It only shows the feelings at this time. When 9/11 happened you probably had that same amount for the war. Now more people are against the war. So polls don't really show what the average people want. There is always a way to get the results you want in away of asking the question. There are things i agree with on the Dem side and some thing i agree with the Reps side. There also Big problems with both partys about where they want to go. Both want the same thing it is just how we get there is the problem. Not matter how high gas gets i will not stop camping!!!!! I grew up enjoying mother nature and want to pass that onto my granddaughter!!!!!

    Peter & Amy,2008 2407 starcraft <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_pu.gif border=0 align=middle alt="PopUp">, 2003 dodge ram quad cab 4X4 <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_suv.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Tow Vehicle"> 08 nights <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_camping.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Camping"> -10
     
  6. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    Well it is not poll, it is polls.

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  7. christate1970

    christate1970 Member

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    I agree with everything KTN said.

    If we cant because of technology get off of oil yet than at least we should get more of the oil we need from sources with our country.

    I believe MPG will get much better and end much of the anti oil argument. The Prius is good but my mom had a 1985 Chevy Sprint that got 50 mpg on the hwy. Thats right, a 1985 sprint. Thats a 22 year old car.

    2005 Kia Sorento
    1980 Coleman

    Edited by - christate1970 on July 21 2008 01:56:22
     
  8. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    I had an '86 Chevy Sprint, I once got 63 MPG with it from El Paso to Odessa Texas. YOWZER!

    The problem is, steel beams in doors and airbags and such have made cars much heavier. The 1986 Chevy Sprint was a 3 cylinder 61 cubic inch car that weighed less than a full dress Harley-Davidson. It got great mileage and had good performance.

    You can no longer sell a car in the U.S.A. that weighs less than a 1000 pounds like the old Sprint did.

    I am amazed that so few seem to care about all of the jobs (and our national wealth!!) that we are sending to our pals in Arabia. When it is IT jobs, or factory jobs, or call centers people are up in arms when we send those jobs to India or Mexico.

    That totals to next to nothing compared to what we outsource in oil.

    We are sending 2 TRILLION dollars a year out for oil, more than 10% of our total national wealth! Yet geologist say that oil shale alone in Colorado and Wyoming will last us perhaps as long as 400 years.

    When you count shale, we have more oil reserves than Saudi Arabia.

    Off shore, ANWR, shale.....

    HELLLLOOOO!!!!!!!!!

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  9. christate1970

    christate1970 Member

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    Its hard to believe this is a political issue. It shouldnt be. The jobs created by pumping our own oil should be huge, not to mention the money staying in the US. You always hear (follow the money) If certain politicians are in the pockets of big oil and want to pump, than who is sending money to the politicians who are against pumping. I bet the OPEC countries are giving donations to politicians to get them to stop any domestic oil production.

    2005 Kia Sorento
    1980 Coleman
     
  10. Oldtimer69

    Oldtimer69 New Member

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    Hey KTN ............... Oldtimer here

    Weekend was kind of a downer for me. Daughter called and said she and her husband just saw a terrible accident on their way home. Car vs motorcycle. Happened right in front of them. Daughter was all shook up - and sad. Car pulled out of a mobilehome park directly into path of oncoming motorcycle. Man didn't have a chance. He fell off the hood to the pavement and bled to death I think. Daughter said lady in car was screeming her poor head off. Parts of man, his leg or foot was still sticking thru windshield. Daughter called 911, took about five to seven minutes for first responders to arrive. The guy was beyond any help.

    Daughter got on phone and called her two sons, told them to sell their motorcycles.

    I worry about you and all motorcyclists I see on the hiway. Used to ride myself. So please be careful with yourself. People in cars just dont seem to register a motorcycle into their brain computation of when to pull out, or turn, or pass another car.

    Tony
    99 Dodge Ram
    (2000 Coleman Seapine - sold)
    Homebuilt Tent Camper Project
     
  11. karichar

    karichar New Member

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    I am not being political just stating the facts. When a politican states there is no way we are going to drill off shore shows this politican is not representing the people. If they vote this down or worse if they don't even allow a vote I guarantee the will of the people will be reflected in the next election. I am contacting my representatives and telling them if they don't allow a vote or vote this down they will not be serving another term. The special interest lobbiest will not have any control over a very furious American public. Like some have found out you had better not tick Americans off! Right now we are very TICKED OFF! LIKE THE MOTO SAYS "DON'T TREAD ON ME!!!

    Edited by - karichar on July 21 2008 18:35:15
     
  12. christate1970

    christate1970 Member

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    Like the Japanese said during WWII. We are a sleeping giant, when we put our minds to something it gets done.

    2005 Kia Sorento
    1980 Coleman
     
  13. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    Oldtimer - I am always careful on on my bikes. I just figure they are all out to kill me and ride accordingly. I have had eight people I know die riding over the years, I have a healthy respect.

    Besides, Sturgis is right around the corner!

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  14. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    <img src="http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj40/ktn00000/Sturgis%20Trips/Sturgis2006_018.jpg" border=0>


    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283

    Edited by - Digger on July 21 2008 22:27:22
     
  15. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    <img src="http://268.photobucket.com/albums/jj40/ktn00000/Chaco%20Canyon%20Trip%20April%202008/Photo-0093.jpg" border=0>


    <b>Never Stay Home!!!!!</b>

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  16. Digger

    Digger Foothills of Central Virginia

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    Ok...a few thoughts here....

    Most of the taxes on gasoline are quantity-based, not cost-based, so the tax revenue is essentially the same whether we are paying $2 a gallon, or $4.

    I find it really interesting that all the talk about wind or solar power being 'the way to go'. Both of these solutions will require huge tracts of land to create the necessary power....sure some can say, we'll all put wind turbines or solar collectors on our homes and businesses...sorry, that ain't gonna happen. The efficient solution would be to create energy collection farms. Can you imagine what the NIMBYs and the Greens will say to that???? How many snail darters will get in the way of these ideas? And folks don't want to 'see' an oil rig 12-17 miles of the coast...what would they say to a wind farm a mile up the road?

    It also amazes me that with the Healthcare debate (bear with me here), proponents for Nationalized HealthCare point to other countries and how well it works for them. But when it is pointed out that countries like France produces 78% of it's power requirements from nuclear energy...the arguement is ignored. I guess they've got Healthcare right, and energy policy wrong....sheesh

    I've been hoping that every President I've voted for (beginning with Reagan in 1980) will come up with a real energy policy to get us off our dependence on foreign oil. My hope has been based on the oil crisis in the 70s we all lived through.

    Keep in mind also that use of oil will never disappear....we use vast quantities of oil on things other than transportation....think plastics.

    ~Cheers~ <img src=../Images/icons/icon_smile_beer.gif border=0 align=middle alt="Cold Beer"> Ðigger
    '04 Fleetwood Westlake (StonyBlue)/'02 Ford E-150
    2008 nights camping: PUP - 18
     
  17. Oldtimer69

    Oldtimer69 New Member

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    Yes... KTN, that looks like a nice ride.

    I plan to head up to Northern New Mexico in about a month. Spend some time at the NRA shooting range (Whittington Center at Raton). They have an OK campground, in fact they have two campgrounds with Full hookups and another more primitave CG. I choose the hookups even tho I don't need the sewer connection. Got a good view out over the Eastern valley and Mesas. About 7000 feet there bouts. Bears not too much of a problem there. Considering most guests there are packing Heat. During the day, I kind of like the sounds of the big guns, the klanks of bullets hitting the metal gongs, and the long echos up and down the canyon. Nights are usually quiet. And no, I don't worry about prowlers there during the night.

    Tony
    99 Dodge Ram
    (2000 Coleman Seapine - sold)
    Homebuilt Tent Camper Project
     
  18. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    Oldtimer - I have been to the Whittington Center several times (yep, NRA here!!).

    Here is an idea for you, a bit west of the Whittington Center is Cimarron, New Mexico. They have a ton of history but what is really wonderful is the St. James Hotel. Definitely worth spending a night there if you can squeeze it in. It is about the coolest old hotel I have ever been to.

    Here is a link to the St. James, http://www.stjamescimarron.com/.

    Here are some photos I took last time I was there (April of this year) http://s268.photobucket.com/albums/jj40/ktn00000/Cimarron%20NM%20F650%20Trip/

    Let me know when you go, I might be able to zoom down and we can have lunch or something. It is about four and a half hours for me on a bike, a nice little ride.

    Sounds like a great trip for you.

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  19. ktn

    ktn New Member

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    http://www.newmediajournal.us/guest/t_glennon/2008/05242008.htm

    Keith and Claire
    2006 Tacoma
    2007 Palomino P283
     
  20. christate1970

    christate1970 Member

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    Great news article KTN. The rest of the world has no problem getting to the oil they need, whats our problem and why did the politicians allow us to get to this point in the first place.

    2005 Kia Sorento
    1980 Coleman
     

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