Why the Covid Restrictions is a crock

Discussion in 'General Camping Discussion Forum' started by firepit, May 5, 2020.

  1. Nani2

    Nani2 Active Member

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    People in TN and GA are the same about college sports. I have seen many setups that are crazy to me but fun to the owners on game day. We moved from a big city with professional sports to the southeast with crazed college fans and it was very amusing to us. I joke about feeling like Reese Witherspoon going back home in Sweet Home Alabama saying she is surprised she doesn't need a passport to go there.
     
  2. Orchid

    Orchid Sharp Shootin' Grandma

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    WV is very much the same way. In fact, we are still all about WVU and have a Christmas tree with nothing but Mountaineer ornaments on it. A bit different there, though as most of the camping didn't have electric and there were no TVs. We would have never been camping on game day, unless it was at the private park I mentioned earlier in this thread, and that was for partying, not for the camping aspect.

    Same thing with Suwanee River Jam, where we "camp" every year. The only thing about it that resembles camping is that we are staying in the camper. We are there for the party only. When we camp, I want it to be in the woods. :)
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2020
  3. Dave Brick

    Dave Brick El Cheapo Family Camper

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    I don't think you have strong reasoning skills, BikeNFish. Here are a few hints regarding your frequent use of logical fallacies just within this thread. I hope your reasoning improves. I have never "justified innocent death", and I don't particularly believe in "karma", but you should learn about what it means. I work with Covid patients.

    "Listening" neither slows nor increases the death rate. My only "gamble" is to work hands on with sick people. What is your contribution, other than to sling mud?

    The Straw Man Fallacy
    This fallacy occurs when your opponent over-simplifies or misrepresents your argument (i.e., setting up a "straw man") to make it easier to attack or refute. Instead of fully addressing your actual argument, speakers relying on this fallacy present a superficially similar -- but ultimately not equal -- version of your real stance, helping them create the illusion of easily defeating you.
    The Bandwagon Fallacy
    Just because a significant population of people believe a proposition is true, doesn't automatically make it true. Popularity alone is not enough to validate an argument, though it's often used as a standalone justification of validity.
    The Appeal to Authority Fallacy
    While appeals to authority are by no means always fallacious, they can quickly become dangerous when you rely too heavily on the opinion of a single person.
    The False Dilemma Fallacy
    This common fallacy misleads by presenting complex issues in terms of two inherently opposed sides. Instead of acknowledging that most (if not all) issues can be thought of on a spectrum of possibilities and stances, the false dilemma fallacy asserts that there are only two mutually exclusive outcomes.
     
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  4. firepit

    firepit Well-Known Member

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    You are not in the group that spins what Trump said as he really meant it are you?
    Obama once said he has been to all 57 states.
    Question...Correct me if i am wrong...Do we have a vaccine for SARS?
    What are we gonna do until a vaccine is created..What if we never have one?
    Are we doomed to live in fear and wear masks forever.
    Will getting a vaccine be mandatory by law?
    If not then i hope we judge anyone who doesn't get a vaccine the same way we judge people
    who are not living in fear and leaving the house without a mask.
     
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  5. adkdave

    adkdave Member

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    You make some good points, but nothing is mentioned about those of us with heart disease and the higher risks involved. I am not going to get into my medical history, I have heart damage from a heart attack 6 years ago. Therefore, what works for one individual may not be what's best for another. I will continue to take all the precautions as advised by health officials to avoid getting the virus and follow the recommendations of my cardiologist.
     
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  6. tombiasi

    tombiasi Well-Known Member

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    But do you sink he likes his mutter?
     
  7. Overland

    Overland Well-Known Member

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    All due respect.. those women didn't need to die, they could have protected themselves. Just like in anything else, don't put yourself in a position like that, or tolerate it. Doubt many, if any of those women died from their first beating.

    How many were in states that didn't allow their citizens the option to protect themselves.. who's to blame there?

    Where was family, neighbors? Men who beat women/children don't deserve the oxygen they take up.. they deserve a bullet, noose, or sledgehammer in their sleep.

    I grew up around that kinda bullshit, and I will not tolerate it in any shape or form. I see you beat a woman, your lucky if you only get a beating in return. Consequences be damned.. too many other weak men look the other way saying it's not their business.

    If wife beaters knew life for them would change drastically it would lower the instances, most don't have the balls to raise a hand to another man.

    Sorry, rant off. I know you believe in what you type but remember.. there's always an alternative opinion in every matter these days.
     
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  8. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    Straight from a mud slinger's keyboard.

    @Dave Brick, if your reasoning skills have any merit, then read carefully the words that you cut and paste. You may be the one to have fallen victim to fallacy. Every one of your points can be directly placed into "your" examples.

    Wake up Dave. Not everyone you are "listening" to is telling the truth. I will continue to err on the side of fact until it is proven wrong. You prove nothing.

    Working with Covid patients is admirable and praiseworthy, but it does't make you an expert like the ones that you so gladly tell us to ignore that are trying to keep this pandemic manageable. And it especially doesn't automatically make you right. Are you looking for some job security? is that what drives your misguided opinion?

    You say, "Some die from it every year. 40,000-50,000 annually statistically." You of all people should know that THIS ISN'T "THE FLU". The experts say that to care for Covid patients, you need PPE. Why do you listen those experts but not others? If you believe in your words that the experts are wrong then take off your PPE and let it take it's course. Your loved ones will be fine. After all, it's just the flu.

    You cherry pick, Dave, to make others believe your opinion is the only truth. Your truth is not everyone's truth and it certainly isn't all based on fact.

    But you deflect from my original point, your opinion is short sighted and a very selfish response.

    I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

    Stay well, Dave.
     
  9. Dave Brick

    Dave Brick El Cheapo Family Camper

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    I am entirely in agreement with you regarding the deserved punishment for wife beating (or girlfriend/boyfriend/husband). Of course, men are much more guilty of this than women. When men are out of work and out of money, they are more likely to lash out. I'd like to start getting people back to work safely, out of the house safely, and yes, earning money again.
     
  10. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    Just like the title of this thread, you are gas-lighting.
     
  11. Dave Brick

    Dave Brick El Cheapo Family Camper

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    I never said this is "THE FLU." That's a strawman.

    Please don't take my word for it. Look at the CDCs influenza statistics, 2018-19 was a relatively easy year:

    "CDC estimates that the burden of illness during the 2018–2019 season included an estimated 35.5 million people getting sick with influenza, 16.5 million people going to a health care provider for their illness, 490,600 hospitalizations, and 34,200 deaths from influenza"

    2019-2020 seems very light, BUT, co infections with Covid are ALL considered straight Covid. Decide for yourself why that is.

    "CDC in its latest report estimated that there had been at least 23,000 deaths related to the flu as of March 14."

    When did I tell you to IGNORE "experts", or anyone else? You claim to "err on the side of facts". I'm not sure that medical opinion is "fact". See the appeal to authority logical fallacy.

    I never claimed to be an epidemiologist. However, aside from my present position as a first line health care provider, my first degree was in molecular biology, including graduate-level coursework and lab work in Advanced Molecular Genetics, and Molecular Basis of Immunology. So I'm not a layperson either.

    Please consider the possibility that you might be mistaken. I welcome being shown when I am wrong.
     
  12. Dave Brick

    Dave Brick El Cheapo Family Camper

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    A few quotes from one of my favorite scientists, Richard Feynman:

    "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts"

    "As I get older. I realize that being wrong isn't a bad thing like they teach you in school. It is an opportunity to learn something"

    "It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is. It doesn't matter how smart you are. If it disagrees with experiment, it's wrong."

    "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself. And you are the easiest person to fool."
     
  13. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    Then why do you keep referencing the flu? (The Straw Man Fallacy) Making comparisons with inference that they are the same thing is misguiding the reader.
    Statistically, living (and dying) with Covid is NOT even close to the same thing as living with influenza. To use that as your example and to infer that we should just "live with it" is not the answer if you want to save lives. What happened to "Do no harm?"

    And you continue to compare it to the flu (The Straw Man Fallacy):
    Dave Brick --> I never said this is the flu, but here are more statistics on the flu...

    So then you claim to be, more or less, an authority? The Appeal to Authority Fallacy

    And to say that we need to end our isolation because "More wives beaten and killed due to the lockdown" is also irresponsible. I just shook my head and chose to ignore it. I don't even know where to start on that one.
    The Bandwagon Fallacy

    The lock down is creating more opportunity for domestic violence, but it is not the cause.
     
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  14. Arlyn Aronson

    Arlyn Aronson Well-Known Member

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    Lets go camping folks! [Guitar] bobcamp964.jpg
     
  15. xxxapache

    xxxapache Well-Known Member

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    I am camping
     
  16. Dave Brick

    Dave Brick El Cheapo Family Camper

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    Comparing death rates from different viral pathogens is scientifically useful. That is not a straw man. Your claim, "You of all people should know that THIS ISN'T "THE FLU", ironically enough, is a strawman.

    Next: "So then you claim to be, more or less, an authority? The Appeal to Authority Fallacy". Did you miss it, or did you intentionally edit out the preceding sentence:

    "I never claimed to be an epidemiologist."

    I did not claim to be an authority, and expressly stated so. You are being obtuse in creating yet another strawman. I did, however, claim to not be a layperson. That is not the same as being an authority.

    Next:

    "And to say that we need to end our isolation because "More wives beaten and killed due to the lockdown" is also irresponsible. I just shook my head and chose to ignore it. I don't even know where to start on that one."

    I never said "we need to end our isolation because..." YOU said that. That is a strawman.

    I merely pointed out that the isolation is having severe unintended consequences. You can say its "not the cause" if you want. Fair enough. But please don't say it is not a consequence.

    I get less childish arguments from my 13 year old daughter.
     
  17. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Well-Known Member

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  18. BikeNFish

    BikeNFish Well-Known Member

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    I'll bet she loves pushing your buttons too! [LOL]

    Truce @Dave Brick? @Arlyn Aronson is right. We need to get back to camping.
     
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  19. Matt D Wilder

    Matt D Wilder New Member

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    All I know is they are releasing felons from jail because confinement is too dangerous but they make 20 million people in New York and Chicago stay in their 400sf apartments. If your forest is so small you can't social distance your forest sux.
     
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  20. Sjm9911

    Sjm9911 Well-Known Member

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    Its all relative to where you are, if your not seeing what i do , it really doesn't hit home as much. I can see both sides. If where you live dosen't have a ton of cases or bodies, i see everyone wanting to go outside and playing. But seeing the hospitals, funeral homes and bodies over where i am, i can see the wanting to stay in lockdown. Everything isnt black and white.This makes decisions harder. Espeshally if some parts of your state are hit hard and others are not. Sometimes , in life , there are compromises. While they may not be favorable to all , they may be in the best intrest of all. This is where we are now. Unfortunately, the only way we will know if we did good is after the fact. No one knows, be it docter, scientist or camper, what this will do economicly or health wise. We know it isn't good. It will end soon, maybe not soon enough for some , but it will end.
     

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