Converting to 50 amp from 30 amp.

[BillyMc]

You could use a disconnect and take the 240v breaker out. Put a 110v 30 amp on one side to supply your current power center and single pole tandem breaker on the other side for two 15s, two 20s, or a 20 and a 15. $20 for the box plus breakers, wire, outlets, and 4-pole supply cable all that you going to need anyway. My choice would be a tandem 20-30 on one side and a 15-20 on the other. This would give you two 20 amp circuits and one 15 amp circuit in addition to what you already have at a low cost and not very much labor.

 

[1380ken]

Not sure how you came up with this math, for 2 reasons. First, rarely does any so-called "1500 watt" electric heater actually draw anywhere near that much, and secondly 6 x 1500 watts = 9000 watts, the issue being that 50 amp RV service actually supplies up to 100 amps @ 120 vac, or 12,000 watts - i.e. up to 50 amps per leg across each of TWO legs. In reality, one could in theory run far more than just 6 "1500 watt" heaters from 50 amp RV service and still not trip any breakers.

I was just pointing out that she could run a lot of heaters. I know that 6 x 1500 = 9000 watts. Also I believe that 1500 watt heaters actually do draw 1500 watts. I wouldn't run any service at the max. I have a 60 amps service in my garage and I sometimes run 11000 watts of heaters but I worry that something could be getting hot somewhere.

 

[GreyFox]

Also I believe that 1500 watt heaters actually do draw 1500 watts.

A great investment for any RV owner, in fact any homeowner, is a P3 Kill-a-Watt energy meter which will provide current draw of any 120 vac device and illustrate how so-called "1500 watt" heaters in most cases do draw significantly less. I own 1/2 dozen different types of heaters and only one is even remotely close to drawing anywhere near this amount of power. Without one, you're just guessing.

http://www.p3international.com/products/p4400.html

 

[1380ken]

Do we really need to argue on how many watts a 1500 watt heater uses? I believe that 1500 watts would still be a good number to use when trying to calculate the load of your 1500 watt heaters. I am not aware of the heater manufacturers conspiracy to short us on watts.

 

[GreyFox]

Do we really need to argue on how many watts a 1500 watt heater uses? I believe that 1500 watts would still be a good number to use when trying to calculate the load of your 1500 watt heaters. I am not aware of the heater manufacturers conspiracy to short us on watts.

Conspiracy? Seriously? The amount of power any electric heater draws in watts is exactly the point as it relates to this discussion i.e. 30 amp RV service vs 50 amp RV service. Fact is, the greater the actual draw in watts the greater the current draw and the greater is it's heat output as measured in BTUs, according to the formula 1 Watt = 3.412142 BTU/hr. If one wants to power multiple electrical heaters with a limited input supply then obviously one needs to know the actual draw of each heater so the appropriate capacity of the input source can be determined. There's nothing mystifying about this that one could possibly "argue".

 

[Spridle]

Some of the things being offered here sound a bit dubious to me, mostly talking about splitting things out in odd ways. The exception being running a dedicated device like the heater on the 15A outlet and the rest on the 30A feed. That's pretty straight forward and not mixing the systems. I also think it's insane to need a 240V 50a service in a pup, but whatever, but I almost never camp at electric sites to begin with so... If you are going to do it, might as well do it right with the proper load center. Meets code, safe and once and done.

 

[GreyFox]

Some of the things being offered here sound a bit dubious to me, mostly talking about splitting things out in odd ways.

If you are going to do it, might as well do it right with the proper load center. Meets code, safe and once and done.

Not sure exactly what "things" you're referring to but using one leg of a 50 amp RV service to power one half of the trailer and the second leg to run the other half is exactly how it's done in an RV wired for 50 amp service. Ideally you want the load on each 50 amp leg to reasonably balance, that's why if a rig has 2 A/C units one will be wired to one leg will the second A/C will be powered by the second leg. Standard procedure and meets code. Sure, the input breaker that may be physically mounted on the "load center" in a rig wired for 50 amp service would be dual but none of this has anything to do with the converter's DC rating so upgrading to a different one as the OP is talking about won't do anything for him that installing a separate breaker box won't do.

 

[tenttrailer]

Six 1500 watts heaters is a lot.

I have tropes the 30 amp breaker 3 times. Running 2 1500 watts heaters, the elec 1200 watt heating element on my Water Heater and the elec fridge, while recharging a low battery. It always happens when I have just set up in the cold. I now fire up the Propane on the Water Heater. Haveing the water heating element off seems off seems to solve tripping the breaker.

 

[JimmyM]

As I said, there's absolutely no need for Nandy to replace his converter when it would be much simpler and cheaper to simply use one 50 amp leg in place of the existing 30 amp and run the second 50 amp leg through a separate breaker box that in turn will feed it's own dedicated receptacles. To each his own though.

Sure there are different ways to do this. Yours would work. But Nandy's question was about new 50A power centers. I was replying to his request in the top post. I wasn't trying to tell him how to do it differently.

 

[JimmyM]

Do we really need to argue on how many watts a 1500 watt heater uses? I believe that 1500 watts would still be a good number to use when trying to calculate the load of your 1500 watt heaters. I am not aware of the heater manufacturers conspiracy to short us on watts.

Yup. The great "Watt conspiracy". The rated watts is given at the maximum rated voltage. Typically 125V. So at 115V you get 85% of the rated output.

 

[Spridle]

Not sure exactly what "things" you're referring to but using one leg of a 50 amp RV service to power one half of the trailer and the second leg to run the other half is exactly how it's done in an RV wired for 50 amp service. Ideally you want the load on each 50 amp leg to reasonably balance, that's why if a rig has 2 A/C units one will be wired to one leg will the second A/C will be powered by the second leg. Standard procedure and meets code. Sure, the input breaker that may be physically mounted on the "load center" in a rig wired for 50 amp service would be dual but none of this has anything to do with the converter's DC rating so upgrading to a different one as the OP is talking about won't do anything for him that installing a separate breaker box won't do.

Agreed, if you do a proper load center and balance it. I'm not sure what I'm reading here to be honest. But when I see things about using an existing 30A circuit and running 50A through it and then a separate box for the other leg, I start to get uncomfortable and I would suspect that is not to code for a variety of reasons. But I'm honest that I'm not really sure what was being suggested there. We are in agreement though, do a proper load center with proper wiring to a standard 50A 120/240 service and there are no issues.

 

[BillyMc]

But I'm honest that I'm not really sure what was being suggested there.

You put in a new primary panel and in this panel you have a 30 amp breaker to supply the the existing panel. The existing panel would be a sub-panel running on one leg of the new 50 amp primary panel. You could add another 15 or 20 amp circuit to that same leg. On the other leg you can add up to 50 amps in new circuits (two 15s and a 20). It's done quite often when adding on to a home or updating an older home. Perfectly safe and legal when done correctly. My house originally had no central air, it now has central air and has had an addition built on. The original 100 amp electrical panel wasn't able to handle the additional power demands. The contractor installed a 200 amp panel outside and the 100 amp panel in the house is supplied through a 100 amp breaker in the outside panel. There is also a 60 amp breaker in the outside panel to supply the sub-panel in the workshop and a couple 15 amp for lights and outlets in the sun room. This is cheaper and faster than opening up the wall and replacing the whole panel. I added a 20 amp circuit for connecting the PUP.

 

[JimmyM]

All of that will work. But is not what the OP asked for. He just wants a new 50A power center as a single unit designed for RV use. Apparently he doesn't want to screw around with new panels, sub-panels, etc.
In my opinion the new 50A power center would be a cleaner approach. Both electrically and aesthetically.

 

[GreyFox]

I'm not sure what I'm reading here to be honest. But when I see things about using an existing 30A circuit and running 50A through it and then a separate box for the other leg, I start to get uncomfortable and I would suspect that is not to code for a variety of reasons.

Then you're being "uncomfortable" with the exact same method that's used in any rig wired with 50 amp RV main service - one 50 amp leg feeds one half of the system, the other 50 amp leg feeds the other half, and the converter itself, which can be of any DC rating, is just one of several devices that's powered by one of these two legs. I certainly haven't suggested using an existing 30 amp leg to feed anything, just that's there's no need to change the converter itself as that won't gain the OP any advantage other than offer a place to insert a 50 amp duplex breaker, which can easily be duplicated in a separate box. There's nothing magical about any of this - anyone who doesn't understand this ought to save their own life and hire a qualified electrician who does. Given this, perhaps JimmyM does have the best answer - regardless that there's no need for the OP to change his converter maybe that's his best choice anyway. Makes no difference to me, but I'm done.

 

[NMroamer]

After 34 opinions on how to do the totally impractical. I have to ask why on earth do you need a 50 amp service in a popup?

 

[JimmyM]

What GreyFox was suggesting is exactly how you add additional capacity/breakers to a house. It's THE code approved way to do it.
But for the RV, The OP better just going with the single new power center designed for 50A service and trying to re-use his converter if possible. Neat, clean.

 

[Balthisar]

All of that will work. But is not what the OP asked for. He just wants a new 50A power center as a single unit designed for RV use. Apparently he doesn't want to screw around with new panels, sub-panels, etc.
In my opinion the new 50A power center would be a cleaner approach. Both electrically and aesthetically.

Which is actually the approach that I’m going to use, as described in another thread. My problem is the existing power center is only a 24 VDC converter; there’s no charger. Since I want to add batteries, and am not interested in an external charger, a 50 amp power center isn’t all that much more expensive than a 30 amp (actually, the cable price delta is more significant).

After 34 opinions on how to do the totally impractical. I have to ask why on earth do you need a 50 amp service in a popup?

In my case, it’s because I want to run a heater/AC, tea kettle, electric Water Heater, and lights all at the same time, when connected to Shore Power, where the price of electricity is already included in the price of my lot, instead of using propane, which isn’t included. The total load exceeds 30 amps. I currently turn off the heater/AC when boiling water, which I’ll continue to have to do when I only have 30A available. But since I have to install a charger anyway, being capable of 50A is just a nice perk, even if I only ever use it 25% of the time.

 

[Spridle]

Then you're being "uncomfortable" with the exact same method that's used in any rig wired.

It wasn't your post I was referring too. I went back and read it all again. I don't know if it was edited or if I just missed it from the start. I assume the latter. But I missed the first line of using a disconnect in front of all this. I read it as basically a junction box with one 50A feed into the 30A load center and the other into the 50A. No breaker or load center in front of it, just essentially some wire nuts. Agreed, if you put a 50A disconnect in front of everything, no issues. This is all still just circular argument over nothing as the OP has said he's just going to use a 50A load center and be done with it.

 

[BillyMc]

I don't know if it was edited or if I just missed it from the start. I assume the latter. But I missed the first line of using a disconnect in front of all this.

I posted the disconnect box option, I guess you missed it, but it was there including the link to the box. The OP probably not going to get much feedback on the power center type requested on a PUP site as someone already pointed out. I stated in one reply that I considered the same thing, but changed my mind mostly due to cost. There were other reasons including the fact that 30 amp sites are more common than 50 sites and I was running into fit issues. Most of the 50 amp power supplies I looked into were going to require pretty serious modifications due to the increased size of the unit.
The alternate options are just people trying to be helpful to the OP and anyone thinking of the same mod down the road. The mod is doable, but IMO (and of others) is not worth the cost and hassle. After using a 20 amp triple tap extension cord in the 20 amp plug I find I have more than enough power.

 

[1380ken]

I just use one 20 amp extension cord with an adapter. We don't have AC. Just a dorm fridge , microwave, coffee maker and two TVs. Haven't blown a fuse yet.